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[Music]

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so

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host and we have a great one

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lined up for you tonight i have help

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tonight from my friend mac maloney he's

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an author he runs a show usually he's

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recording his show exactly the same time

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my show's up but he's got a couple weeks

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off so i yanked him in here he's going

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to help me co-host through this show he

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also had a book wartime

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um ufos of wartime something like that

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mac i'm probably destroying the title to

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that our guest tonight is graham rendell

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and he randall and he has um a book out

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about the foo fighters uh ufos uh prior

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to

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roswell's basically what we're gonna be

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talking about and uh great guest from

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england is staying up late for the show

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our blog this week

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is a ufo and humanoid in space and you

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know it's kind it's for fun okay it's

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it's like a christmas

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uh

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i don't want to give a spoiler but it's

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a small short blog this week uh charles

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does a great job always like everything

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that he writes and every blog is turned

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into a audio blog i don't know about

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this one in particular but anyway um

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these

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shows that i'm running at break seem to

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be very popular when people are talking

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about their ufo encounters so if you'd

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like to if you had like a really

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interesting ufo encounter and you'd like

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to record like a three minute session uh

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feel free to reach out to me at martin

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at podcastufo.com

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i will tell you this i'm getting a lot

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of email and i will caution you it's

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much easier if you write kind of a short

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email sometimes i get them four pages

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long

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and i just cannot uh

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i just have too much to read to get

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through all those emails so

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i will try to answer every single email

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that i get

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i have uh someone that is uh coming

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forward for from the first

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uh he may have been on another show but

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he's he's coming forward uh who was

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actually uh one of the witnesses at

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rendelsham forest he's coming up on the

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18th of january just to let you know uh

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gary nolan i mentioned was coming up

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he's going to be uh he can't be on the

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show until march and lou elizondo will

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be on in march as well at some point

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so i yesterday i ran one of my first

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well my first everything else show since

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i think was 2016 when i used to run them

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and uh it was inside russia with a

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gentleman called

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named constantine very nice guy

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and he was very brave at some of the

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things he said about russia i worry a

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little bit about with some of the things

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that he said that's on our

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youtube channel only that's not going to

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be made into a podcast those are coming

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up randomly

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but it's kind of funny it's like all

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these people started posting comments oh

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this isn't ufos what's going on everyone

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wants to know about ufos so i put in the

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title

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not ufos well constantine

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uh saw that this morning

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and emailed me says do you want to talk

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about ufos and russia because his family

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and himself he uh he has had some

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encounters so i'll bring him back he's a

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great guy and so if you want to watch

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that that's on our youtube channel and

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if you want to get notifications for

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when we do those shows i'll try to put

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them in the newsletters if i can

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but if i can't

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all you have to do is subscribe to the

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channel and click the little bell and

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that'll send you email notifications

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anytime that we have um shows that will

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pop up that otherwise you would not know

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about so uh and those are random days

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random

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hopefully most of them will be in the

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evenings but um so i never know exactly

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what day it's going to be a day that's

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convenient for myself and convenient for

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a guest

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and hopefully we'll have all kinds of

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interesting shows i do have a lot of

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ideas i have a couple of emails out to

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people and hopefully we'll get again

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maybe a show a week or one every few

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weeks again it's random and uh i don't

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really want to start a mailing list i

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really don't want to do podcasts for

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that just for the youtube channel only

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so i think that's enough of me babbling

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first of all i'd like to bring in my

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good friend mac maloney welcome back

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hi martin thanks for having me yeah it's

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it's always fun to have you on um and

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you're you're usually recording your

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show now and who knows you know if this

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thing that we're going through ever

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changes uh you know we'll do those in

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studio live shows again that was a blast

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we had a lot of fun uh doing uh the live

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show at wxex

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in uh

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to new hampshire a lot of fun right yeah

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yeah it was a lot of fun so hopefully

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we'll get to do that more mac um before

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i bring graham in what was the name of

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the that i think i butchered the title

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of your book

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what what what is it called uh ufos in

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i i think i sort of got it maybe you

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have it yeah i got it okay i did and now

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i would like to bring in our guests all

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the way from the uk graham rendell

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randall welcome to the show hello how

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are you both

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we're doing great uh really good to see

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you thank you for your willingness uh

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first of all uh graham before we get

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going on

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you know your book in general can you

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tell us a little something about

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yourself

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you know what got you interested in the

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topic to begin with

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yeah sure um from about the age of four

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year old i was given model aircraft kits

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to to keep myself quiet um by my mother

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and the model kits had apart from the

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instructions had sort of little

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histories of the aircraft involved so i

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got into aviation sort of history that

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way by talking learning about the old

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aircraft like spitfire's measurements

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all this kind of thing and that

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developed into a history of world war ii

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and about five years later when i was

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eight or nine years old um i was already

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reading science fiction books by about

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that time uh isaac asimov those those

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kind of novels i was quite a quick study

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i was i was reading quite well by then

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and my mother got better um thought she

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was doing me a favor by buying me a book

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which looked like one of the isaac

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asimov covers which was this

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which was um a book by

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brunswick trench because it had a

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spacecraft on the front of it she

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thought that was one of those it turned

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out to be a book on ufos so that's where

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my interest started from that book's

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quite dated um a lot of the stuff in

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there actually is a bit suspect but you

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know that's where it all started so i

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started reading everything i could find

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on those as well

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and basically just kicked off from there

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and of course the foo fighters is where

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everything comes together so my interest

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in aviation in german secret weapons

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from the wall and also from ufos all

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combines

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so you know the foo fighters

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you know were were early on you know i

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guess the typical thing

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that i think a lot of us do

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in when we're looking at ufos we pretend

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like nothing happened before

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1947. you know it's kind of kind of like

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that

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when in fact you know there was even uh

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you know i've talked to dave marlar

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there's been triangle sightings even you

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know the turn of the century and you

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know um so there goes that that theory

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of them being military aircraft you know

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possibly some of them are today who

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knows but um but anyway um so we think

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of ufos

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as the modern era i guess that's the

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best way to put it and you know i've

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talked to people like astrophysicists

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and they say things like you know for

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civilizations to line up

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in in their technology and things like

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that it's like you know a million to one

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type of thing so they could have been

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visiting for a million years or you know

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whatever so or long before people were

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ever

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here

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these possibilities whoever it is that's

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visiting us

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again

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uh i always say this i don't know who it

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is

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that they're driving these uh crafts but

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uh but anyway so um

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aviation is that something you've been

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interested in all your life yeah i used

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to write for innovation magazine some

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time ago um i dropped out of ufos a bit

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towards the end of the 1990s and through

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the early 2000s because it was going a

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bit stale as far as i was concerned the

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the kind of excitement was going out of

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it for me like a lot of people you know

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your interests come and go um so i was

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more into the sort of writing on

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aviation matters and i was about looking

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and researching ufos um but that came

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back in 2017 like a lot of people came

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back with the three videos i was already

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sort of gravitating back into the into

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the interest anyway but that really

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galvanized me and to try and do more um

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and also it's a bit it's a different

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ballgame nowadays to be able to research

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and to write than it was when i was a

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youngster when i was first getting into

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ufos um you know back then i only had

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well you didn't have the internet when i

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first got into this i only had my local

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library as a resource nowadays you know

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the world's your oyster um there's so

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much stuff online that you can you can

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actually research even with covid going

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on last year when i

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earlier this year rather when i wrote

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the book the the amount of information i

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could find in terms of official records

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and raf records royal air force records

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was astounding um and you know it just

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went from there so it was and being able

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to find information from your side of

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the the atlantic as well was quite easy

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uh just by using the internet so finding

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source documentation which i didn't want

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to write a book where it was just me

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throwing a whole load of theories out

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there and just seeing what would stick

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again you know if i throw them against

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the wall and see what would stick i

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wanted to actually go back to source

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documentation and find out what the you

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know the people back then were seeing

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and what they were talking about what

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they were describing and what they were

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thinking rather than me coming out with

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that so the book's quite heavy on um

275
00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:50,079
information it's not very it's quite

276
00:10:54,230 --> 00:10:52,079
light on me trying to say what they are

277
00:10:55,509 --> 00:10:54,240
because i don't know and if anybody buys

278
00:10:57,590 --> 00:10:55,519
my book

279
00:10:59,269 --> 00:10:57,600
expecting to find the answers as to what

280
00:11:00,710 --> 00:10:59,279
these things were i'm afraid they're

281
00:11:02,150 --> 00:11:00,720
going to be disappointed but they are

282
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:02,160
hopefully going to be a hell of a lot

283
00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:03,600
more informed than they were before they

284
00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:05,040
started reading it

285
00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:07,120
yeah mac just let you know mack you can

286
00:11:11,030 --> 00:11:08,959
jump in anytime you have a

287
00:11:12,870 --> 00:11:11,040
question i was just going to say that um

288
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:12,880
i like um

289
00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:15,279
to hear that graham because um

290
00:11:18,790 --> 00:11:16,880
i agree with you anyone who says they

291
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:18,800
know what ufos are

292
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:20,320
where they're from

293
00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:23,440
uh they're uh they're not being truthful

294
00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:24,880
because no one knows

295
00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:26,640
i don't think the uh america i don't

296
00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:29,360
think any military on earth knows i know

297
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:31,040
that they have plenty of proof that they

298
00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:32,160
exist

299
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:34,000
it looks like the u.s government now is

300
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:36,320
actually kind of making an effort to

301
00:11:39,910 --> 00:11:38,640
figure out what these things are

302
00:11:42,069 --> 00:11:39,920
but

303
00:11:44,389 --> 00:11:42,079
if anyone in this world knew what ufos

304
00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:44,399
were where they came from we'd be living

305
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:45,760
in a different world

306
00:11:49,829 --> 00:11:46,800
sure

307
00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:49,839
yeah um just you know we we get chat

308
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:51,440
messages up here and

309
00:11:57,110 --> 00:11:54,480
uh this this one popped in uh it wasn't

310
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:57,120
uh the the question is from joni wasn't

311
00:12:01,470 --> 00:11:59,360
there one in missouri before roswell new

312
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:01,480
mexico about 10 years earlier

313
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:04,800
1941 cape girardeau i believe in

314
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:06,480
missouri i believe that's what you're

315
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:08,399
talking about that one i did actually

316
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:10,959
have a guest the granddaughter of uh the

317
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:13,600
gentleman supposedly saw the bodies or

318
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:16,079
whatever they were um on this show so

319
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:19,600
yes um but you you are focusing mostly

320
00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:21,600
on the wartime

321
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:23,760
right do i have that right you do so the

322
00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:25,920
title of the book is ufos before roswell

323
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:29,440
european foo fighters in 1940 to 1945

324
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:31,760
and i picked the dates because they are

325
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:34,480
where the foo fighters or things that

326
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:37,040
resembled them other objects as well

327
00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:38,720
that's the time frame that you look at

328
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:40,240
that i was looking at and i was only

329
00:12:43,829 --> 00:12:41,920
looking at europe because i could feel a

330
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:43,839
book with the stuff from europe

331
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:45,360
things happened in the pacific war as

332
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:47,440
well but i was focusing more on what i

333
00:12:51,269 --> 00:12:49,680
knew more about than than from the other

334
00:12:52,949 --> 00:12:51,279
side of the world

335
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:52,959
you mentioned before sorry you mentioned

336
00:12:58,470 --> 00:12:55,279
before about you know how the

337
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:58,480
modern ufology started in 1947 and it's

338
00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:00,720
true um when i was growing up and i was

339
00:13:06,069 --> 00:13:03,120
reading books about ufos there was a big

340
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:06,079
gap in terms of the war um the books i

341
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:07,839
read the one i just quoted before there

342
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:09,360
but other ones i was reading back in the

343
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:11,279
70s and 1980s

344
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,480
they would talk about the mystery

345
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:14,480
airships in the in the late 1800s and

346
00:13:18,829 --> 00:13:16,399
the early 1900s they would talk about

347
00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:18,839
the ghost aircraft from the 1920s and

348
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:21,200
1930s then then they would skip over the

349
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:22,880
wall and go straight to the ghost

350
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:25,279
rockets in 1946 and then to kenneth

351
00:13:29,269 --> 00:13:27,519
arnold and to roswell

352
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:29,279
if obviously wrestle that came along in

353
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:31,040
1978 but the books beforehand just

354
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:33,279
skipped that as well but world war ii

355
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:35,920
was just it just didn't exist as far as

356
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:38,000
ufology was concerned and

357
00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:39,440
even when i was young i thought that was

358
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:42,000
quite odd that the because

359
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:43,519
when you think about it

360
00:13:47,030 --> 00:13:45,120
the amount of people who were flying

361
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:47,040
around in world war ii and the amount of

362
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:48,560
people on the ground who were specially

363
00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:50,639
trained to look at the skies to make

364
00:13:55,350 --> 00:13:52,720
sure no enemy aircraft were coming their

365
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:55,360
way you know you have tens of thousands

366
00:13:59,189 --> 00:13:57,040
somewhat hundreds of thousands of

367
00:14:01,189 --> 00:13:59,199
trained observers and very highly

368
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:01,199
trained in aircraft recognition and all

369
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:03,040
this kind of thing looking at the skies

370
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:05,120
every night every day and yet what no

371
00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:07,680
reports that that didn't make sense to

372
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:08,480
me

373
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:10,880
so for years i thought there was more to

374
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,120
it and i did come across some references

375
00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:15,120
to foo fighters and other objects in

376
00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:17,760
world war ii there was um

377
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:19,279
you know there was actually a report

378
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:21,279
that uh one of the intelligence officers

379
00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:23,199
from the 415th knight fighter squadron

380
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:25,279
he compiled a list of 14 different

381
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:28,560
sightings over the winter of 4445 and

382
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,079
that got passed up the chain of command

383
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:32,160
now that actually ended up in a magazine

384
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:34,560
article that a a chap called um uh

385
00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:36,800
lieutenant colonel chamberlain he wrote

386
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:39,600
in the december 1945 uh issue of an

387
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:42,320
american forces magazine um and that had

388
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:43,760
some of the sightings about half a dozen

389
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:46,240
of those from that list in it now that

390
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:47,839
was pretty much all the information that

391
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:49,279
people had to go on for about the next

392
00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:51,680
50 years with a few other exceptions but

393
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:53,440
not many you're looking at about maybe a

394
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:56,160
dozen cases in total in total and that's

395
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:58,079
where most of the ufo authors in the

396
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:59,120
sort of

397
00:15:03,189 --> 00:15:01,440
the 50s and 60s and the 70s got their

398
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:03,199
information from so you saw the same

399
00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:04,959
information regurgitated you know time

400
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:06,720
and time again but there was nothing

401
00:15:10,629 --> 00:15:08,560
really new coming out apart from a

402
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:10,639
trickle of information

403
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:12,639
of course i looked at max book back in

404
00:15:16,949 --> 00:15:15,279
here years ago uh ufos in wartime was a

405
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:16,959
copy behind me there on the shelf and

406
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:19,920
also keith chester's um strange company

407
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:21,760
and they had many more

408
00:15:25,829 --> 00:15:23,680
many more sightings but it was still an

409
00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:25,839
incomplete picture because it was still

410
00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:27,760
focused on the american side of things

411
00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:29,440
now naturally because the auth you know

412
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:31,440
the two authors there mac and and keith

413
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:34,320
were american that's not surprising but

414
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:35,920
i i thought there must have been like a

415
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:38,160
whole raft of raf sightings to look at

416
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:39,519
as well and maybe from other parts of

417
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:41,120
europe so that's where the book came

418
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:42,160
from

419
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:44,240
but this kind of gap didn't make any

420
00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:46,800
sense to me so i knew there must be more

421
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:48,800
uh and it turns out yes there was a hell

422
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,639
of a lot more

423
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:52,800
right yes yes i was just going to jump

424
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:54,959
in just basically say the same thing is

425
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:57,920
that um that's that's how ufos and what

426
00:16:01,829 --> 00:16:00,160
time actually became a book because i

427
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:01,839
was um

428
00:16:05,829 --> 00:16:04,079
out the lunch of my editor and and i

429
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:05,839
happened to mention to him because it's

430
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:07,600
something that kind of was on my mind

431
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:09,440
too as a young kid like you know why

432
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:11,199
does it seem like there's more ufos in

433
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:12,560
wartime

434
00:16:16,550 --> 00:16:14,880
than in peacetime and and we that's what

435
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:16,560
we talked about is that you got so many

436
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:18,000
other people

437
00:16:21,910 --> 00:16:20,240
literally looking up into the sky

438
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:21,920
day and night and so many other

439
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:24,480
airplanes flying so many more airplanes

440
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:26,480
flying around there's just

441
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:29,360
more eyewitnesses on hand during war

442
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:30,720
because you know a lot of people are

443
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:33,440
looking up and they see these things and

444
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:35,600
um so yeah that's cool i want to read

445
00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:36,959
you a book graham i'm not kidding you

446
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:39,519
because i i found that you know when we

447
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:42,000
were doing ufos in wartime it's a it's a

448
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:44,320
large chapter in the book but it's um

449
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:46,399
it's it's it's a subject that could take

450
00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:48,800
several books you know basically if you

451
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,920
really get into it and and and the the

452
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:53,279
just in closing

453
00:16:58,150 --> 00:16:55,120
you know the only conclusion we came to

454
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:58,160
is at the end of the war

455
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:00,000
german generals and american generals

456
00:17:04,069 --> 00:17:02,320
got together and they basically said um

457
00:17:05,590 --> 00:17:04,079
we thought they were your secret weapons

458
00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:05,600
and they said we thought they were your

459
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:07,120
secret weapons so

460
00:17:11,669 --> 00:17:09,039
our conclusion was that no one knew what

461
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:11,679
these were same thing with the japanese

462
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:14,000
um everyone saw them everyone assumed

463
00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:15,760
there were other people's the other side

464
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:17,600
secret weapons

465
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:19,439
that way it kind of went into a bin like

466
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,880
we'll look into this later we have a

467
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:22,319
water wind

468
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:24,319
and then when the wall was over it all

469
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:26,559
kind of you know went away

470
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:29,520
yeah so there are a lot of new listeners

471
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:31,600
that are just getting into this topic in

472
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:32,480
general

473
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:33,200
i

474
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:40,960
know a lot of people know the foo

475
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:43,919
fighters is a band a rock band but um if

476
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:46,240
you can explain to the new listener that

477
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:47,840
has no idea what we're talking about

478
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:50,240
sure what these things were um i don't

479
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:52,000
know where that name came from you may

480
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:53,760
know that but um also the

481
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:55,600
characteristics of uh

482
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:56,720
okay they're all different

483
00:18:00,150 --> 00:17:58,720
characteristics or were there a lot of

484
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:00,160
where they're similar characteristics so

485
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:02,000
i'll explain where the name comes from

486
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:03,440
and it's actually quite late in the war

487
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:04,960
when it was coined

488
00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:07,120
but i'll also explain the kind of the

489
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:09,039
full range of things that were seen

490
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:11,200
during the war so the actual name foo

491
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:12,640
fighters and actually there was a swear

492
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:14,240
word before that that's how the name was

493
00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:15,280
originally

494
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:19,360
literally coined it was made up by a

495
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:21,200
crew member from the 415th knight fight

496
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:22,480
squadron who were based in eastern

497
00:18:26,789 --> 00:18:24,880
france during the winter of 4445 at a

498
00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:26,799
place called near nancy

499
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:27,679
and

500
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:28,400
for

501
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:31,120
from about september onwards in 1944

502
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:32,559
some of the crews and it was more and

503
00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:34,559
more as the months went on towards

504
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:37,760
christmas they were seeing these red and

505
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:39,600
other sometimes other colored lights

506
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:40,880
that were either following their

507
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:42,480
aircraft at night or they were sitting

508
00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:43,840
off their wingtip or they were seeing

509
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:45,280
the distance

510
00:18:48,390 --> 00:18:46,960
and it was night after night it got the

511
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,400
point where it was pretty much every

512
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:50,480
night that one or more crews from this

513
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:52,799
unit who were flying um

514
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:54,799
bristol bow fighter aircraft which the

515
00:18:58,710 --> 00:18:57,039
raf had supplied to the americans uh in

516
00:19:00,549 --> 00:18:58,720
1943 because they didn't have knight

517
00:19:01,750 --> 00:19:00,559
fighters of their own at that time and

518
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:01,760
they were operating this this

519
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:05,280
twin-engined twin seater aircraft over

520
00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:07,440
uh western western germany during the

521
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:09,440
night trying to shoot down luffa bombers

522
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:10,640
and training aircraft and all this kind

523
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:12,640
of thing or targets on the ground

524
00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:15,280
and these lights kept appearing um and

525
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:17,039
of course they were quite scared because

526
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:18,000
first of all they thought they were

527
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:19,919
german either german aircraft german

528
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:22,160
knight fighters or secret weapons but

529
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:24,000
they couldn't shift them so they got

530
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:25,440
these lights got onto the aircraft's

531
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:27,760
tail and it didn't matter what the pilot

532
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:29,440
did throwing the aircraft around the sky

533
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:31,200
tried to lose them they just stayed

534
00:19:35,350 --> 00:19:33,039
there and then after a while they just

535
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:35,360
shot off in the distance now this went

536
00:19:41,669 --> 00:19:39,440
on actually beyond the winter of 44 45

537
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:41,679
and right into the spring but as the war

538
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:44,559
got to a close the number of sightings

539
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:46,000
dropped off the cliff it went down to

540
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:46,960
zero

541
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:49,120
so there was a an idea that well there

542
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:50,720
must be german suited weapons because as

543
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:52,240
they're taking more and more germany and

544
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:53,760
the you know they're reducing their

545
00:19:56,950 --> 00:19:56,080
their ability to fight then

546
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:56,960
it must

547
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:58,080
that must be the reason because they've

548
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:59,440
got them no they're having any of these

549
00:20:03,669 --> 00:20:01,600
weapons left but actually

550
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:03,679
it wasn't as easy as that because these

551
00:20:07,510 --> 00:20:05,840
things have been seen and things like

552
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:07,520
them have been seen right as early as

553
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:08,880
1940

554
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:10,880
so some of the first reports that you

555
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:11,919
read

556
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:14,080
and you can find are from then and in

557
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:16,400
terms of air force reports

558
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:18,799
definite sightings the first one i could

559
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:21,760
find was dated march 1942

560
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:23,440
um and the cover of the book which is

561
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:24,720
actually sitting on the shelf behind me

562
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:25,520
there

563
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:28,320
is a representation of an event and

564
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:30,159
michael know the one i'm i'm talking

565
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:31,440
about because he features in his book as

566
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:32,799
well

567
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:35,200
and it was a polish squadron uh a polish

568
00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:36,640
unit who were fighting on behalf of the

569
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:37,600
british

570
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:39,440
and it was 301 squadron they were based

571
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:41,280
in lincolnshire in england and they flew

572
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:43,360
wellington bombers and one night they

573
00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:45,440
were this aircraft from this squadron

574
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:47,280
was coming back from essen in germany in

575
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:48,240
the rura

576
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:51,280
and this luminous orange copper-colored

577
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:53,280
disk was seen coming up behind the

578
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:54,960
aircraft

579
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:57,440
and the pilot told the rear gunner that

580
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:59,200
if it got close enough to open fire on

581
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:00,960
it which he did

582
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:03,919
now the bullets went into the light

583
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:05,840
and nothing happened

584
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:09,280
kept kept shooting at this this light

585
00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:10,720
thinking it was a night fighter i think

586
00:21:13,750 --> 00:21:12,559
it was a german night fighter and

587
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:13,760
nothing happened now if you're shooting

588
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:16,400
that many bullets into it and you know

589
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:17,600
you would knock it down or you would

590
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:19,200
disable it or you'd destroy it or damage

591
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:20,799
it whatever but the light just stopped

592
00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:21,600
there

593
00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:23,600
and then after a period of time it moved

594
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:26,080
around to the wing tip of the aircraft

595
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:28,080
and sat off the wingtip for a bit

596
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:29,600
and it got the point where it was

597
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:30,960
positioned enough so that the actual

598
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:34,000
tail gun and the nose gun turrets could

599
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:35,840
open fire at the same time

600
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:38,000
and that is theoretically possible if

601
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:39,679
the light was off a certain distance off

602
00:21:43,669 --> 00:21:41,760
the wing tip and they were both opening

603
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:43,679
fires and then it moved around to the

604
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:45,520
front of the aircraft and the nose

605
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:47,600
gunner was starting to fire it as well

606
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:49,120
and after a while it then shot off into

607
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:51,679
the distance and disappeared now that

608
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:54,080
clearly rattled the crew because well

609
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:56,240
what what flies around like that and can

610
00:22:00,070 --> 00:21:58,480
be shot at but nothing's done to it you

611
00:22:02,230 --> 00:22:00,080
know it's not damaged it's not shut down

612
00:22:04,549 --> 00:22:02,240
et cetera now this had happened to an

613
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:04,559
aircraft directly behind that wellington

614
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:07,039
as well but they didn't report it now

615
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:08,880
neither did the polish crew they did

616
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:11,600
talk to the intelligence crew offices on

617
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:12,880
the ground when they landed after the

618
00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:15,200
raid but nothing seems to have happened

619
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:18,480
officially however the pilot did talk to

620
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:22,080
a vancouver-based ufo researcher in 1962

621
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:24,080
and that's where the story comes from uh

622
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:26,240
it ended up in flying saucer review um

623
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:28,799
in the magazine like in the 1960s

624
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:30,320
and there are other stories from back

625
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:31,919
then now that one doesn't appear in the

626
00:22:35,669 --> 00:22:33,360
official records but there are others

627
00:22:38,549 --> 00:22:35,679
that do there are ones that appear in

628
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:38,559
august 1942 and in november 1942 there's

629
00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:40,960
a story of a lancaster bomber which is

630
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:44,000
over northern italy uh from 61 squadron

631
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:46,320
and the pilot and the crew see what they

632
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:47,760
described as a 200 foot long

633
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:50,480
torpedo-shaped object with two rows of

634
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:51,760
what they thought were the lights or

635
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:53,520
windows along it

636
00:22:58,070 --> 00:22:55,200
and they saw it twice during the same

637
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:58,080
raid over the alps of the italian alps

638
00:23:02,070 --> 00:22:59,840
and the second time it was flying along

639
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:02,080
a mountain valley along you know down

640
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:04,159
below them now

641
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:05,919
you might think that was an airship a

642
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:07,280
zeppelin but what the hell was the

643
00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:09,600
zeppelin doing flying around in 1942

644
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:11,280
that had long been retired by them that

645
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:13,280
weren't being used by the germans and

646
00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:14,960
you wouldn't fly one in a dangerous part

647
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:16,640
of the world such as a mountain range so

648
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:18,960
it didn't none of this made sense and of

649
00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:20,400
course there were other sightings around

650
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:22,880
this time as well but different things

651
00:23:27,029 --> 00:23:24,799
so they were calling them lights to

652
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:27,039
start with because the raf the royal air

653
00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:28,320
force didn't know what they were looking

654
00:23:32,470 --> 00:23:29,760
at again they thought they were german

655
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:32,480
secret weapons but then the name changed

656
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:34,320
so rather than call them lights they

657
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:36,000
then started calling them rockets in the

658
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:38,000
official reports when they started

659
00:23:41,590 --> 00:23:39,760
recording them and the intelligence

660
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:41,600
reports where you can find them if you

661
00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:43,760
look hard enough they mentioned these

662
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:45,919
mystery rockets long before the germans

663
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:47,360
actually started feeling rockets like

664
00:23:51,269 --> 00:23:49,840
the v2 and other service-to-air missiles

665
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:51,279
and all this kind of thing

666
00:23:55,029 --> 00:23:53,520
um and then they started the pilots had

667
00:23:57,510 --> 00:23:55,039
their own nickname for him they'll call

668
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,520
them the thing and there is a docker uh

669
00:24:02,390 --> 00:23:59,760
a logbook entry from a pilot who was

670
00:24:05,269 --> 00:24:02,400
based in in southern italy in 90 at the

671
00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:05,279
end of 1943 and he mentions a dog fight

672
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:06,559
with a light

673
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:08,960
and him he was in a bow fighter night

674
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:11,600
fighter him and his radar observer

675
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:13,679
basically had a sort of a dogfight going

676
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:15,760
round round circles with a mysterious

677
00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:18,000
light that they couldn't couldn't uh

678
00:24:21,110 --> 00:24:19,600
chase what they were chasing it but they

679
00:24:23,029 --> 00:24:21,120
couldn't catch up with it and it just

680
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:23,039
latched on their tail and then it shot

681
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:24,640
off in a distance now that wasn't the

682
00:24:28,549 --> 00:24:26,480
only story from 43 there'd been a

683
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:28,559
hurricane pilot over north africa in the

684
00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:31,039
spring of 43 he was a new zealander from

685
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:34,000
73 squadron and he'd had a an orange

686
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:36,080
light attached himself to

687
00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:37,919
almost off his wingtip and sat there

688
00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:39,039
didn't matter what he did with the

689
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:41,679
aircraft it just sat there and after a

690
00:24:44,710 --> 00:24:42,960
period of time he managed to turn the

691
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:44,720
aircraft enough so he could get onto its

692
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:46,400
well

693
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:48,240
figuratively tail didn't have a tail it

694
00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:49,760
was just a light but he managed to get

695
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:51,679
behind it and you opened up it with 20

696
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:53,360
millimeter cannon

697
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:54,640
nothing happened

698
00:24:58,149 --> 00:24:56,320
it just and then just sat off his wing

699
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:58,159
again so there's all these strange

700
00:25:01,750 --> 00:25:00,320
stories about some things being fired at

701
00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:01,760
but nothing happened

702
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:04,640
so you've got lights of different colors

703
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:06,400
you've got these big objects you have

704
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:09,120
smaller objects there was a battle in

705
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:12,240
russia in that in february 1943 a place

706
00:25:16,630 --> 00:25:13,840
called crazy boar which was near

707
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:16,640
leningrad and it was a spanish division

708
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:18,080
fighting on behalf of the germans the

709
00:25:22,710 --> 00:25:20,799
250th infantry division and four

710
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:22,720
soldiers from that unit saw what they

711
00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:25,200
described as an upturned bathtub sitting

712
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:27,440
above a battle and there were aircraft

713
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:28,640
from the russians the germans they were

714
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:30,000
fighting they were they were shooting

715
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:31,520
each other down and there was a battle

716
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:33,440
going on the ground below then and this

717
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:34,640
thing was sitting above everything

718
00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:36,320
watching what was going on

719
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:38,559
so there's stories all over the place

720
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:40,240
about these kind of strange things there

721
00:25:42,549 --> 00:25:41,520
were other stories from eastern europe

722
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:42,559
as well

723
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:44,720
stories from occupied france stories

724
00:25:48,789 --> 00:25:46,640
from italy you name it there were

725
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:48,799
stories there's even a story from the

726
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:51,120
north the north cape and norway which i

727
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:52,799
actually haven't don't i don't happen to

728
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:53,760
believe

729
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:56,320
for various uh reasons which is too long

730
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:58,400
to go into here but there are stories

731
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:00,320
from all over europe

732
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:02,720
let me ask you this uh graham

733
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:04,080
were there

734
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:06,480
sightings from civilians or is it just

735
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:08,559
military

736
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:11,760
no button the um the 1940 stories that i

737
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:13,360
managed to find

738
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:15,520
are from belgium and from france now

739
00:26:18,630 --> 00:26:17,200
they're from civilians

740
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,640
and this is just when the german

741
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:20,480
invasion started uh there's a couple of

742
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:22,559
ambulance drivers in in um

743
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:25,039
in belgium sort of strange object over i

744
00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:26,320
believe it might have been liege i can't

745
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:28,400
remember exactly where it was now

746
00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:29,760
but uh there was things like that being

747
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:31,200
seen then now you've got to remember

748
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:33,360
that in occupied europe when the germans

749
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:35,039
were in control the last thing that the

750
00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:36,720
civilian would do would be report

751
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:38,960
strange aircraft to the military

752
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:41,200
authorities because you get hold away

753
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:43,200
and put in the prison camp or worse

754
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:44,799
because you know the germans would

755
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:46,080
probably immediately assume that they'd

756
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:49,200
seen one of their secret aircraft um so

757
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:51,360
you don't get that many civilian reports

758
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:53,279
they came out after the war

759
00:26:57,430 --> 00:26:55,360
um and there are quite a few of them

760
00:26:59,590 --> 00:26:57,440
there are ones from poland there are

761
00:27:01,510 --> 00:26:59,600
ones from czechoslovakia uh you know so

762
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:01,520
there's different countries involved

763
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:03,200
there are the ones from romania as well

764
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:04,880
and these are civilians on the ground

765
00:27:08,950 --> 00:27:06,880
which saw strange objects

766
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:08,960
and they range from zeppelin shaped

767
00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:11,039
objects through to lights in the sky and

768
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:12,480
you know you name it everything in

769
00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:14,320
between there's even a story of black

770
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:16,720
triangles uh in my neck of the woods in

771
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:19,200
northumberland in england where four was

772
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:21,840
seen by a spitfire pilot flying at uh

773
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:24,080
quite high altitude over in nearby town

774
00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:26,159
about 12 miles from where i live and he

775
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:28,559
saw four black triangles so you know you

776
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,600
name it it's in world war ii

777
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:33,360
right now hey martin if i could just

778
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,200
yeah yeah jump in here real quick yeah

779
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:37,600
um there's also a story um graham

780
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:39,039
probably has heard of it it's in our

781
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:39,919
book

782
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:41,120
where

783
00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:43,440
uh right after the war it was a story

784
00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:45,440
that um

785
00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:47,840
winston churchill was given a photo that

786
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:51,600
was taken from a lancast obama recon

787
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:52,480
plane

788
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:54,960
um taken from the rear gunner's position

789
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:57,840
of this saucer-like craft following this

790
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:59,039
airplane

791
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:00,559
in broad daylight

792
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:04,159
and um as the story went uh churchill

793
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:05,840
looked at it and realized that you know

794
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:08,480
this is this isn't something

795
00:28:13,350 --> 00:28:11,440
from this earth and uh he mandated that

796
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:13,360
the picture had not been seen for 50

797
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:14,720
years

798
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,919
the reason being he said uh this will uh

799
00:28:22,389 --> 00:28:20,000
basically destroy every religion on

800
00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:22,399
earth because all of a sudden here's

801
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:24,880
proof that we're not the only ones

802
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:26,720
in the universe let's say

803
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,640
and um and then later on apparently

804
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:30,240
after he died again this is how the

805
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:31,440
story goes

806
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:34,559
um they destroyed the photo but uh to

807
00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:36,880
graham's point uh

808
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:38,880
i think probably you know just the way

809
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:41,200
that i read some of the raf reports and

810
00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:43,279
some of the army air force

811
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:46,159
air force reports um and there are a lot

812
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:49,120
in um the pacific as well that the navy

813
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:52,000
really hasn't been forthcoming with um

814
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:52,720
but

815
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:55,279
i think that maybe just the way that you

816
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:57,039
we might look at i bet you there's

817
00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:58,880
probably only about

818
00:29:02,149 --> 00:29:00,960
a third to a half of the actual

819
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:02,159
sightings

820
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:04,080
um that were made during the war that

821
00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:06,799
were documented and lost

822
00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:08,480
maybe somehow buried in classified

823
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:10,720
information or whatever but basically

824
00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:12,480
people were seeing these things

825
00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:14,080
on a regular basis

826
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:16,000
all over the war zone

827
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:17,679
for the good four or five years of the

828
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:19,279
european war

829
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:21,039
so can i go back to what you said there

830
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:23,520
mark about the churchill story um that i

831
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:25,520
believe that actually comes from a

832
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:27,760
revelation from a scientist from a few

833
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:28,960
years ago and it was it made the

834
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:30,960
newspapers here in england as well

835
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:33,840
and he his grandfather was a bodyguard

836
00:29:36,389 --> 00:29:35,279
to winston churchill it's actually

837
00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:36,399
chapter

838
00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:39,760
before my book um and the story is that

839
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:41,600
this bodyguard was in a meeting with

840
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:43,679
churchill and eisenhower one day it's

841
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:46,799
supposed to have happened um yeah 44 and

842
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:49,440
a mosquito coming back from germany is

843
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:51,600
supposed to have had been followed by an

844
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:52,640
object

845
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:55,120
um and that's where that story comes

846
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:56,640
from however

847
00:29:59,909 --> 00:29:58,799
the providence of the story is the

848
00:30:02,710 --> 00:29:59,919
grandson

849
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:02,720
and it was passed on by the mother

850
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:04,480
uh by this this chap's mother he was a

851
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:06,240
scientist and he wouldn't give his name

852
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:08,799
uh it's in the emoji records the letter

853
00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:12,080
that he put that he sent to the mod um

854
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:13,840
but he doesn't give many details because

855
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:15,840
his mother didn't know them either and

856
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:17,360
his grandfather wouldn't give any

857
00:30:20,950 --> 00:30:19,440
details away either so

858
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:20,960
it's

859
00:30:24,950 --> 00:30:22,799
i'm loathe to say that the story is

860
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:24,960
false but there's not enough information

861
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:27,679
to go on um and also

862
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:29,200
that late in the war

863
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:30,880
churchill would have heard a lot more

864
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:32,960
stories because there'd been lots of

865
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:34,880
instances before then

866
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:36,399
of these kind of things and this is why

867
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:37,679
i don't think this story is actually

868
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:38,799
true

869
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,320
right yeah not least the fact that this

870
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:42,000
scientist never came forward afterwards

871
00:30:45,669 --> 00:30:44,000
to actually talk about it you never came

872
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:45,679
out in the open you never get any any

873
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:47,120
further information

874
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:48,960
and this is why i don't think it's

875
00:30:51,909 --> 00:30:50,159
actually it's actually i think it's a

876
00:30:53,669 --> 00:30:51,919
bit of a bogus story you know but

877
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:53,679
they've been being the po they've been

878
00:30:57,909 --> 00:30:56,320
the polish incident where a light had

879
00:31:00,149 --> 00:30:57,919
been fired out and nothing happened

880
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:00,159
there'd been two other instances during

881
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:03,919
1943 where fighter aircraft had shot at

882
00:31:08,230 --> 00:31:06,240
ufos but if when you read my book you

883
00:31:12,630 --> 00:31:08,240
will find that the same thing happened

884
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:12,640
throughout 1944 from bombers um in

885
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:14,399
flying over germany from britain but

886
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:16,000
also ones who were based in italy flying

887
00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:18,399
over the balkans they were seeing things

888
00:31:22,149 --> 00:31:20,240
nearly every night and they were they

889
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:22,159
were opening fire at these things as

890
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:25,120
well and then if you got into 1944 this

891
00:31:28,389 --> 00:31:26,640
is actually just to quickly answer a

892
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:28,399
question that was in the chat by john uh

893
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:30,480
who actually i know on twitter um he was

894
00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:32,320
mentioning about the measurement 262 the

895
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:35,120
jet fighter um now even before that was

896
00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:37,600
actually introduced as a proper weapon

897
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:39,919
uh in january 1945

898
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:42,320
the raf were seeing these things flying

899
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:43,519
around and they were reporting them

900
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:45,760
seeing them at night in october and even

901
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:47,440
earlier and they were shooting they said

902
00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:49,200
they were shooting at them as well so

903
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,720
there was all these stories about these

904
00:31:53,269 --> 00:31:52,080
strange lights and things that were

905
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:53,279
being fired at

906
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:55,840
and churchill that he would have known

907
00:31:59,590 --> 00:31:58,080
at some stage if that had been the case

908
00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:59,600
because reports would have been passed

909
00:32:03,669 --> 00:32:01,919
to him so i don't quite believe that

910
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:03,679
something as late as that in the war

911
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:05,120
would have grabbed his attention in the

912
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:08,159
way that this story suggests that he did

913
00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:09,679
um i think that if that had been the

914
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:11,360
case he would have come up with this

915
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:13,120
kind of action much earlier in the war

916
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:14,720
because it was already known that there

917
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,559
were strange things flying around not

918
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:18,720
only did the raf intelligence people

919
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:20,159
knew there were odd things that they

920
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:22,240
couldn't explain but also that as you

921
00:32:27,909 --> 00:32:25,200
said the us army f uh army air force had

922
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:27,919
the same problem not just in the night

923
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:29,360
time but also in the daytime they were

924
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:31,279
seeing some really odd things which

925
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:33,120
again in the records now a lot of these

926
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:34,559
things were actually getting past the m

927
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:36,320
industry because it was it was a free

928
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,399
flow of information between the services

929
00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:40,320
and you can see all these reports where

930
00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:41,840
especially from the rf side that i've

931
00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:43,519
read but also for the american ones

932
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:45,039
where you see the other side you know

933
00:32:49,509 --> 00:32:47,360
the other air force's information as

934
00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:49,519
well so and this information got passed

935
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:51,440
up the chain so if it was if it was

936
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:53,360
interesting enough and it was dangerous

937
00:32:57,029 --> 00:32:55,120
enough you know the germans because

938
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:57,039
everything was lent towards the germans

939
00:33:00,789 --> 00:32:59,039
have these these are german weapons

940
00:33:02,789 --> 00:33:00,799
right didn't you think about aliens they

941
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:02,799
didn't think about ufos right wasn't in

942
00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:04,799
their lexicon these must have been

943
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:06,880
german secret weapons and that would

944
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:08,320
have got church's attention because

945
00:33:12,230 --> 00:33:10,000
everything else along that line the

946
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:12,240
rockets the v1 everything else along

947
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:14,240
those lines did get his attention and he

948
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:15,679
spent hours and hours and hours with

949
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:17,519
these experts and he scientists trying

950
00:33:21,029 --> 00:33:19,760
to work out ways to defeat them so

951
00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:21,039
there's reasons why i don't think that

952
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:23,279
story is actually true and nothing ever

953
00:33:27,669 --> 00:33:25,360
has ever come out against uh about it

954
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:27,679
afterwards so i think it's a bit of a

955
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:29,840
kind of a red herring but yeah it does

956
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:31,840
appear everywhere and people ask me all

957
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:34,640
the time about it but i'm a bit sort of

958
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:36,640
um i'm a bit sort of you know about it

959
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:38,640
i'm afraid the thing i like about the

960
00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:40,480
story though was um

961
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:42,320
that he um

962
00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:44,000
uh whoever made it up

963
00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:46,399
uh he thought that

964
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:48,960
you know spotting a a a really good

965
00:33:53,350 --> 00:33:50,720
picture of something that was not on

966
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:53,360
this earth it would affect all our

967
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,519
religions you know um

968
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:57,200
that's quite a leap but you know it's

969
00:34:01,509 --> 00:33:59,200
it's it's probably true

970
00:34:03,029 --> 00:34:01,519
yeah at that time you know at that time

971
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:03,039
it could have been yeah

972
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:05,120
i mean uh you know these days you know

973
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:06,880
who knows what would happen but

974
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:09,119
um you know i thought that was just as

975
00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:11,520
it was an unusual place for someone to

976
00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:14,560
go to you know that to that kind of leap

977
00:34:17,589 --> 00:34:16,639
so uh when we did the book ufos and what

978
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:17,599
time

979
00:34:22,069 --> 00:34:18,960
there's probably about 300 different

980
00:34:24,470 --> 00:34:22,079
stories in there and we got to about

981
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:24,480
20 of them where you know we're just

982
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:26,079
thinking like graham you know has this

983
00:34:29,589 --> 00:34:27,839
really happened to this but they're just

984
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:29,599
too good not to put in there you know

985
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:31,440
and that was one of them i'll certainly

986
00:34:35,669 --> 00:34:33,280
mention it in the book um i do go at

987
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:35,679
length and i do quote from the official

988
00:34:39,990 --> 00:34:37,919
ministry of defense uh archives about

989
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:40,000
the letter that he wrote uh this this

990
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:41,919
grandson uh and all the things that it

991
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:44,240
entails so if people read my book they

992
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:47,040
can see the whole story as it's laid out

993
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:48,480
in terms of photographs let me talk

994
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:50,800
about photographs mac um there's not

995
00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:53,040
many um from world war ii that stand any

996
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:55,040
kind of strict scrutiny whatsoever even

997
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:56,879
the japanese are on in the pacific wall

998
00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:58,400
all the ones that are online that one

999
00:35:02,310 --> 00:35:00,079
you showed before is actually a model

1000
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:02,320
because mustangs never never carried

1001
00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:03,760
never accompanied weapons like that they

1002
00:35:09,430 --> 00:35:06,400
look like bazookas um for one thing that

1003
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:09,440
that's a complete mock-up um but the the

1004
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:11,440
photographs that appear

1005
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:13,119
you know they've got no provenance

1006
00:35:16,069 --> 00:35:14,480
they've got no dates behind them they've

1007
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:16,079
got no locations they've gotten sure

1008
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:17,760
nothing about it you can't work out

1009
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:19,760
where they were taken in what context

1010
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:21,119
and to me

1011
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:23,040
uh even though i've written a book about

1012
00:35:26,710 --> 00:35:24,800
why i believe there was something to

1013
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,720
this i don't necessarily believe that

1014
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:28,480
any of the photographs actually do show

1015
00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:31,200
anything because they could well be you

1016
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:33,440
know photographic defects or problems in

1017
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:36,000
developing or just like flak bursts or

1018
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:37,440
anything like that there's a whole lot

1019
00:35:41,030 --> 00:35:39,280
of things that could be i don't i've

1020
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:41,040
never come across anything that to me

1021
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:42,240
looks yeah

1022
00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:44,640
that i can't explain there are however

1023
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:46,880
stories of photographs being taken but

1024
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:48,640
the photographs have never surfaced i'll

1025
00:35:51,990 --> 00:35:50,720
just give you one story about that if

1026
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:52,000
you don't mind there was an

1027
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:53,599
anti-submarine aircraft over the bay

1028
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:56,320
biscay and this was november 1942

1029
00:36:00,069 --> 00:35:58,160
this is just after the americans had

1030
00:36:01,030 --> 00:36:00,079
sent aircraft to britain to get involved

1031
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:01,040
in the war

1032
00:36:05,589 --> 00:36:03,760
um and it was actually us army air air

1033
00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:05,599
force aircraft rather than us navy

1034
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:07,839
aircraft were involved in this operation

1035
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:09,280
uh the us navy hadn't actually got their

1036
00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:10,640
act together in terms of aircraft at

1037
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:12,560
that time in europe

1038
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:15,040
um so this b-24 bomber and it was it was

1039
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:16,880
an army air force bomber was flying over

1040
00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:18,800
the bay of biscay with a crew on board

1041
00:36:24,550 --> 00:36:20,800
and looking for german submarines off

1042
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:24,560
the coast of france and again an object

1043
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:25,920
start training their aircraft and this

1044
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:27,119
time was an object because it was in the

1045
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,240
daytime

1046
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:30,000
and a tech sergeant on board the

1047
00:36:34,310 --> 00:36:31,920
aircraft took a picture or you took six

1048
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:34,320
pictures of this object apparently one

1049
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:36,160
was supposed to be a really good one but

1050
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:38,240
that picture has never come out it's

1051
00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:39,920
never ever appeared anywhere

1052
00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:42,160
unfortunately the the tech sergeant

1053
00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:43,599
actually died in a raid about three

1054
00:36:47,109 --> 00:36:46,079
weeks later three months later so nobody

1055
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:47,119
after the war could question him he

1056
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:49,280
never came forward but that story you

1057
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:51,280
know exists uh it was the first time

1058
00:36:55,589 --> 00:36:52,960
anti-submarine squad and it was called

1059
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:55,599
or the 361 bomb group i believe

1060
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:57,040
but that's a that's a that's a story

1061
00:37:01,349 --> 00:36:59,760
that can be chased down um the the the

1062
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:01,359
witness came forward the only other

1063
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:03,119
gives initials he lived in the new york

1064
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:04,880
area the tech sergeant came from the

1065
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:07,520
pittsburgh area um but that's really all

1066
00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:09,520
that's known about this story this i've

1067
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:10,960
tried to find the official records from

1068
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:13,200
the squadron but the they're not located

1069
00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:14,880
in the archives in america i've never

1070
00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:16,960
been able to trace them

1071
00:37:20,470 --> 00:37:18,800
and let me i'll just jump in real quick

1072
00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:20,480
again is that well we're talking about

1073
00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:22,000
this we should just talk about a little

1074
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:24,000
bit about what was happening in the

1075
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:25,119
pacific

1076
00:37:29,589 --> 00:37:27,280
now basically

1077
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:29,599
the way it goes is that the european

1078
00:37:35,589 --> 00:37:32,720
theater of world war ii was an army show

1079
00:37:38,069 --> 00:37:35,599
and the pacific theater was more of a

1080
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:38,079
navy show more of a ocean-going kind of

1081
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:38,960
war

1082
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:41,440
and um even though at the end of world

1083
00:37:46,710 --> 00:37:44,880
war ii the um air force

1084
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:46,720
kind of released you know what they had

1085
00:37:51,829 --> 00:37:48,800
you know on basically you know just

1086
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:51,839
lights and suspected chicken weapons

1087
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:54,320
whatever the navy never released their

1088
00:37:58,630 --> 00:37:57,200
files on this to this day now i know

1089
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:58,640
this from our mutual friend keith

1090
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:00,240
chester's book

1091
00:38:05,670 --> 00:38:03,599
and which makes it but but people saw

1092
00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:05,680
you know strange things in the sky over

1093
00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:07,440
the pacific war just as much as they did

1094
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:09,440
in europe but it's just that they never

1095
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,240
had that kind of foundation of uh the

1096
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:14,640
navy release and its files which makes

1097
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:16,160
it kind of interesting these days

1098
00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:18,720
because what's going on with the tic tac

1099
00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:21,040
uh videos and everything

1100
00:38:24,150 --> 00:38:22,960
it seems like the navy has been on the

1101
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:24,160
forefront

1102
00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,160
of getting this whole idea that hey now

1103
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:28,560
we're going to look into these things

1104
00:38:34,630 --> 00:38:31,119
you know past congress you know the navy

1105
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:34,640
has always kind of taken a back seat and

1106
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:36,640
not been involved as much as the air

1107
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:38,400
force has in in

1108
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:40,800
american ufo history if i can use that

1109
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:43,599
term um so once again i think it's odd

1110
00:38:47,190 --> 00:38:45,119
that now all of a sudden they're the

1111
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:47,200
ones they're the ones in the they're the

1112
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:49,680
tip of the arrow trying to

1113
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:52,160
get congress to spend money to find out

1114
00:38:56,550 --> 00:38:54,720
what these tic tac videos were and and

1115
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:56,560
and they succeeded you know so now

1116
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:58,160
they're going to they've opened an

1117
00:39:03,109 --> 00:39:00,480
office to look into this congress has

1118
00:39:06,390 --> 00:39:03,119
funded the money it's the it's the only

1119
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:06,400
like bipartisan bill passed you know for

1120
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:09,359
in two years or something um so it might

1121
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:11,920
be interesting and if something happens

1122
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:14,960
we get the navy to thank yeah i want to

1123
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:17,040
just expand a little bit on that you

1124
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:19,680
know lieutenant or ex-lieutenant retired

1125
00:39:25,349 --> 00:39:22,960
uh i believe he's retired ryan graves

1126
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:25,359
um you know he mentions that

1127
00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:27,040
they're out there you know since like

1128
00:39:31,589 --> 00:39:30,400
2015 he's a navy pilot f18

1129
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:31,599
and he's saying that they're seeing

1130
00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:34,560
these things every day all the time

1131
00:39:38,069 --> 00:39:36,880
um you know which is is quite amazing

1132
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:38,079
and

1133
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:40,640
so that being said you know the number

1134
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:42,640
one thing it goes all the way back to

1135
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,400
the foo fighters like

1136
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:46,160
what is it this

1137
00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:49,200
whose technology is this it's just it's

1138
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:51,440
kind of surprising that it hasn't been

1139
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:53,680
like on the forefront all the way along

1140
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:55,599
all the way back since foo fighters you

1141
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:58,640
know it's kind of like tucked away

1142
00:40:03,349 --> 00:40:01,040
it's so the people like here yeah

1143
00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:03,359
the whole idea of ufos from foo fighters

1144
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:05,359
up till present

1145
00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:08,240
when you really think about it if um

1146
00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:10,000
you know someone discovers that what

1147
00:40:14,230 --> 00:40:12,000
these things are and obviously that it's

1148
00:40:15,589 --> 00:40:14,240
not going to be some kind of very simple

1149
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:15,599
explanation

1150
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:17,200
um it's going to be

1151
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:18,720
earth shattering it's going to be one of

1152
00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:20,319
the greatest

1153
00:40:24,309 --> 00:40:22,560
revelations in human history

1154
00:40:26,309 --> 00:40:24,319
um you know if we find out these things

1155
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:26,319
are from outer space or another time or

1156
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:27,680
different dimension who knows what

1157
00:40:32,309 --> 00:40:30,000
something we maybe can't even understand

1158
00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:32,319
so play on ufos like

1159
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:34,720
the number one story on cnn every day

1160
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:37,359
why is it on or you know why is this

1161
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:39,920
ridicule factor is still in place it's

1162
00:40:42,550 --> 00:40:41,599
it's you know people laugh at these

1163
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:42,560
things

1164
00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:44,000
especially

1165
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:45,200
it's easy to stick your head in the

1166
00:40:49,270 --> 00:40:47,040
sound and just pretend it doesn't happen

1167
00:40:51,430 --> 00:40:49,280
i guess but to me because i used to work

1168
00:40:53,109 --> 00:40:51,440
in the media you have to think there's

1169
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:53,119
so many people who are interested in

1170
00:40:57,910 --> 00:40:55,760
ufos if you had a ufo story on the front

1171
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:57,920
page of the you know new york times

1172
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:00,800
every day or if you had a ufo five

1173
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:03,599
minutes every day on cnn it would be

1174
00:41:08,470 --> 00:41:06,240
huge it'd be huge i i don't understand

1175
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,480
why it isn't a bigger story though these

1176
00:41:11,109 --> 00:41:10,160
tic-tac videos

1177
00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:11,119
you know

1178
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:14,720
but the day that i saw that just real

1179
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:16,960
quick the day that i actually saw the

1180
00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:20,720
tic tac videos was on abc morning news

1181
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:22,560
good morning america

1182
00:41:27,030 --> 00:41:24,880
and they showed it and they come back

1183
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:27,040
and and and i hate to use this phrase

1184
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:29,440
but the bubble-headed news chick goes oh

1185
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:31,359
i think i saw the millennium falcon and

1186
00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:34,480
everyone laughs okay and and you don't

1187
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:35,839
realize hey you might be looking at like

1188
00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:39,040
the greatest discovery in humankind here

1189
00:41:43,109 --> 00:41:41,440
and then it turns out that abc is owned

1190
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:43,119
by walt disney and there was a stock

1191
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:44,720
track movie came out that week and it

1192
00:41:48,309 --> 00:41:47,040
might have been tied in who knows but i

1193
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:48,319
think it's easy i think it's easier

1194
00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:49,520
sometimes when you don't understand

1195
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:52,160
what's going on to laugh it off

1196
00:41:55,589 --> 00:41:53,760
that's an instinctive reaction but you

1197
00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:55,599
have to remember back in 47 even when

1198
00:41:57,670 --> 00:41:56,880
everything kicked off again after the

1199
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:57,680
war

1200
00:42:02,069 --> 00:42:00,480
the same you know the official the

1201
00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:02,079
united states air force officials who

1202
00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:04,000
are in charge of looking at stuff and

1203
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:06,480
the even see in more senior offices with

1204
00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:07,839
us pretty much the same people who have

1205
00:42:11,910 --> 00:42:09,839
been in charge at the end of world war

1206
00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:11,920
ii you know with a few exceptions so

1207
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:13,119
they were going through the same thing

1208
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:15,040
again because they'd already gone

1209
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:17,839
through this um thing where um

1210
00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:19,280
information about the foo fighters and

1211
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:21,520
other associated phenomenon was going up

1212
00:42:26,069 --> 00:42:23,200
the chain of command is to say you know

1213
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:26,079
what's going on um so i go back to that

1214
00:42:30,550 --> 00:42:28,640
list of um sightings that uh the the

1215
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:30,560
intelligence officer from the 415th

1216
00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:32,160
night fighter squadron passed up the

1217
00:42:36,390 --> 00:42:33,920
chain of command he actually passed it

1218
00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:36,400
to his uh to his senior his commanders

1219
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:38,560
at the 64th fighter wing they didn't

1220
00:42:41,829 --> 00:42:40,640
know what to do with it uh

1221
00:42:43,670 --> 00:42:41,839
they basically said well you're gonna

1222
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:43,680
have to give us more information so it

1223
00:42:47,589 --> 00:42:46,160
ended up him bypassing um that

1224
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:47,599
intermediate chain of command and he

1225
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:49,680
went straight to 12th tactical uh air

1226
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:51,280
command which was the next one of the

1227
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:53,599
chain and that's when that they started

1228
00:42:56,790 --> 00:42:55,040
talking to each other but even they

1229
00:42:57,829 --> 00:42:56,800
didn't have a clue and they kept saying

1230
00:42:59,430 --> 00:42:57,839
well you're gonna have to provide more

1231
00:43:00,870 --> 00:42:59,440
information again so it was backwards

1232
00:43:03,030 --> 00:43:00,880
and forward over the course of about two

1233
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:03,040
months sure over so the end of january

1234
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:04,880
began to all through february and even

1235
00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:07,280
into march 1945 there was this touring

1236
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:09,280
and throwing of letters and memos going

1237
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:10,640
backwards and forwards between the

1238
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:13,440
squadron and two links up the chain

1239
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:14,640
trying to work out what the hell was

1240
00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:16,640
going on we got the point where 12th

1241
00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:18,800
tactical air command just washed their

1242
00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:20,000
hands of it and said we're going to give

1243
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,960
it we're going to give it to the air

1244
00:43:23,829 --> 00:43:22,560
ministry in london that's to us the

1245
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:23,839
brits

1246
00:43:28,630 --> 00:43:26,400
because they didn't have a clue and the

1247
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:28,640
the air ministry um looked at it and

1248
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:30,480
they consulted various officials and you

1249
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:31,920
can see the the

1250
00:43:36,069 --> 00:43:34,000
uh in my book i've got a i've got a copy

1251
00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:36,079
of the letter i've got the transcript of

1252
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:38,319
the letter and it basically says in

1253
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:40,160
essence we don't know what's going on

1254
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:41,520
they're just probably measured to make

1255
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:43,920
two jet fighters which is a an aircraft

1256
00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:45,599
that the germans sure

1257
00:43:48,309 --> 00:43:47,280
the germans failed it

1258
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:48,319
um

1259
00:43:50,950 --> 00:43:49,680
and that's and that was effectively

1260
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:50,960
washing the hands of it you know it's we

1261
00:43:53,510 --> 00:43:51,920
don't know

1262
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:53,520
it's not really doing much damage

1263
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:56,160
nobody's getting shot down by them

1264
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:58,240
it's not losing the war for us so let's

1265
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:01,440
just bury it yep yeah so did they did

1266
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:04,560
they display extraordinary

1267
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:06,000
you know

1268
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:08,880
navigation like they did like they

1269
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:10,720
didn't show up on radar first of all

1270
00:44:14,309 --> 00:44:12,319
because these things were sitting off

1271
00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:14,319
the wing tips of air of night fighters

1272
00:44:18,790 --> 00:44:16,560
which were equipped with the best and

1273
00:44:20,550 --> 00:44:18,800
aired airborne intercept radar that the

1274
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:20,560
allies could field at that time it's

1275
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:22,720
actually better than the german stuff um

1276
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:25,440
so the the p-61 black widows and the

1277
00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:26,800
bristol bow fighters that the two

1278
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:28,960
american night fighter units in in

1279
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:30,880
france and belgium and also the two that

1280
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:32,800
were based in italy they all have the

1281
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:34,640
same sort of aircraft and that was a

1282
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:35,920
pretty good radar system it was actually

1283
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:38,079
a copy of a british one but never mind

1284
00:44:42,790 --> 00:44:40,800
uh but it was it was really good and we

1285
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:42,800
had we had mosquito night fighters we

1286
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:44,560
had uh bowfight and knife fighters as

1287
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:45,760
well and they were coming up with the

1288
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:47,200
same problem these things were sitting

1289
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:48,640
off wingtips or being seen in the

1290
00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:51,119
distance but and the radar on board the

1291
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:52,880
aircraft had a range of about five to

1292
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:54,560
eight miles it just wasn't seeing them

1293
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:56,480
at all and there's one story of one of

1294
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:58,319
the american knight fighter pilots after

1295
00:45:02,710 --> 00:45:00,480
an encounter with one of these lights

1296
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:02,720
you radioed one the ground radar station

1297
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,280
to say have you got it and the the reply

1298
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:07,359
was it's just you up there

1299
00:45:10,790 --> 00:45:08,880
you know so

1300
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:10,800
this is what happened so they they had

1301
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:12,640
some kind of anti-radar property but

1302
00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:13,920
they were extremely fast when they

1303
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:16,160
wanted to be they were very maneuverable

1304
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:17,440
and

1305
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:18,960
everything that you read about now you

1306
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:20,480
know about what they can do they did

1307
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:22,160
back then so

1308
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:24,400
it's just uh this kind of lit yo extra

1309
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:26,319
leaping technology that they displayed

1310
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:28,480
was much better than even the best jets

1311
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:29,920
and the rocket fighters and all the rest

1312
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:32,240
of it from the wall whereas nowadays

1313
00:45:35,829 --> 00:45:33,680
they're better than the best aircraft we

1314
00:45:38,950 --> 00:45:35,839
can put up so you know there's this kind

1315
00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:38,960
of step change in what they display um

1316
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:41,680
of course back then as i said before

1317
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:43,040
the allies thought these things were

1318
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:44,960
german serial weapons now there is this

1319
00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:46,079
kind of school of thought that the

1320
00:45:50,069 --> 00:45:48,160
germans thought the same thing now it's

1321
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:50,079
all great saying that but trying to

1322
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,240
prove it is a different matter entirely

1323
00:45:57,349 --> 00:45:54,319
and then yet to come across official

1324
00:45:58,390 --> 00:45:57,359
german documents that say that is the

1325
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:58,400
case

1326
00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:00,400
there's a lot of anecdotal evidence to

1327
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:03,200
say germans saw these but finding german

1328
00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:06,240
cases and german pilots who saw them you

1329
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:08,000
know there's one chapter in my book but

1330
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:10,000
it's not very big it's only what 20

1331
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:12,720
pages maybe 30 pages and i've it's got

1332
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:14,480
all the stories i can find and i've gone

1333
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:16,319
through some fairly obscure german and

1334
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:18,480
austrian publications to try and find

1335
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:21,119
those um but they do exist but they're

1336
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:23,520
not many of them and in most cases

1337
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:24,800
there's not much information that you

1338
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:27,200
can check out and i do and i used to i

1339
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:28,720
would do that i would look at the units

1340
00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:30,480
involved find out where they were based

1341
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:31,760
and you don't even get that information

1342
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:34,079
with a lot of these so even then some of

1343
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,560
these stories are a little bit suspect

1344
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:38,160
a lot of them come out of french authors

1345
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:41,040
from the 1960s and 1970s a lot of books

1346
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:42,960
back then published these things and

1347
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:45,440
actually one of the authors made a story

1348
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:46,160
up

1349
00:46:51,270 --> 00:46:48,960
about a german research program

1350
00:46:52,309 --> 00:46:51,280
about ufos in the war was called

1351
00:46:55,670 --> 00:46:52,319
13.

1352
00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:55,680
he made that story up in the 1970s and

1353
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,920
90 actually in a book he wrote in 1970

1354
00:47:01,510 --> 00:46:59,920
called the black book of flying sources

1355
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:01,520
because he wanted to expose people who

1356
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:03,200
have plagued your eyes and his work she

1357
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:05,359
also he also made up another story about

1358
00:47:09,910 --> 00:47:07,440
ufos in the same book to try and catch

1359
00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:09,920
them out now people believe those and

1360
00:47:13,349 --> 00:47:11,839
you still see it today

1361
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:13,359
so there are stories you've got to

1362
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:15,040
you've got to take with a pinch of salt

1363
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:16,560
they might be in my book i better go

1364
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:18,640
back and check

1365
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:19,359
well

1366
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:21,280
you know a lot of these things like

1367
00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:23,599
you're talking about graham they almost

1368
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:24,720
become

1369
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:25,839
like

1370
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:27,520
considered a fact

1371
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:29,920
for instance alexander the great they're

1372
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:33,200
you know everyone says oh alexander

1373
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:36,000
but that came out in a 1955

1374
00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:38,240
uh book and there's no you can't go back

1375
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:40,960
any further than that so that's true in

1376
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:45,109
you know

1377
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:46,880
yeah they become established facts even

1378
00:47:49,030 --> 00:47:47,920
though they're nothing in the world

1379
00:47:50,870 --> 00:47:49,040
right

1380
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:50,880
with these most of these cases i've gone

1381
00:47:53,750 --> 00:47:52,240
back as far as i can to try and find

1382
00:47:55,589 --> 00:47:53,760
where the original the origin of the

1383
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:55,599
actual the cases are when they're not in

1384
00:47:59,270 --> 00:47:57,280
official records because there are some

1385
00:48:00,630 --> 00:47:59,280
which lie outside the official records

1386
00:48:03,510 --> 00:48:00,640
and you do trace them back to the same

1387
00:48:05,109 --> 00:48:03,520
with sources so um you know part of the

1388
00:48:06,790 --> 00:48:05,119
book i talk about the german flying

1389
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:06,800
discs they'll talk about um the flak

1390
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:09,680
mines that renato pesco uh made up

1391
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:11,680
effectively but both of those things are

1392
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:13,760
now established fact but again there's

1393
00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:15,280
nothing there's no truth in any of them

1394
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:16,880
because when you boil them back to the

1395
00:48:21,190 --> 00:48:18,480
start of the origins

1396
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,200
the discs start with a whole load of

1397
00:48:24,790 --> 00:48:23,119
well about four or five different people

1398
00:48:26,549 --> 00:48:24,800
who started putting things in newspapers

1399
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:26,559
in the early 1950s

1400
00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:27,839
and you can't go any further back than

1401
00:48:32,069 --> 00:48:30,319
that now they say they were engineers or

1402
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:32,079
they say they worked for albus spares

1403
00:48:35,349 --> 00:48:34,000
ministry of armaments but you can't

1404
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:35,359
check that anywhere because there's no

1405
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:37,520
documentation to say they ever existed

1406
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:39,760
uh never mind you know in terms of what

1407
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:41,520
they did never mind that they built

1408
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:43,440
disks so you know and there would have

1409
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:44,720
been a paper trail for this kind of

1410
00:48:48,230 --> 00:48:46,160
thing they were you know the germans

1411
00:48:49,990 --> 00:48:48,240
were very good at bureaucracy they had

1412
00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:50,000
paper trails for everything you were

1413
00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:52,480
getting materials getting a manpower

1414
00:48:56,549 --> 00:48:54,640
getting research facilities all this

1415
00:48:58,230 --> 00:48:56,559
kind of stuff there would have been

1416
00:49:00,230 --> 00:48:58,240
evidence they wouldn't have destroyed

1417
00:49:01,750 --> 00:49:00,240
everything it wasn't that simple even

1418
00:49:04,549 --> 00:49:01,760
the things they tried to destroy during

1419
00:49:06,870 --> 00:49:04,559
the war still survived so i can't

1420
00:49:09,190 --> 00:49:06,880
believe that this project would ever

1421
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:09,200
have been subject to the same kind of

1422
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:10,640
you know scrutiny and would have been

1423
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:12,640
this extra level of secrecy and all the

1424
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:15,680
rest of it yada yada um so that i just

1425
00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:17,520
don't believe it and i go into quite

1426
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:19,040
like there's three chapters in the book

1427
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:21,440
about the discs and about these things

1428
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:23,680
uh there's one called fireball and one

1429
00:49:28,549 --> 00:49:26,240
called kugelblitz that this this italian

1430
00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:28,559
author called renato vesco came up with

1431
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:29,920
he came up with in the 50s but he

1432
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:32,160
published his book in the end of 1968 i

1433
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:33,200
think it was

1434
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:35,760
um and it was called intercept and shoot

1435
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:36,960
and he

1436
00:49:42,549 --> 00:49:39,040
postulated it or he actually stated

1437
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:42,559
rather that these two um unmanned that

1438
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:45,119
were like kind of spheres and they would

1439
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:47,839
be attracted by the um exhaust

1440
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:49,680
signatures from allied bombers and they

1441
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:51,520
would either like interfere with the

1442
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:53,680
engines um you know and shoot them down

1443
00:49:56,390 --> 00:49:55,599
that way but these things never existed

1444
00:49:58,710 --> 00:49:56,400
because

1445
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:58,720
his when his footnotes and his books

1446
00:50:01,670 --> 00:50:00,480
talk about a lot of things in the wall

1447
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:01,680
and they're great in the things that

1448
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,520
everybody understands and knows about

1449
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:05,280
when he talks about these particular

1450
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:06,240
weapons

1451
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:08,160
all these sources run dry

1452
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:09,680
you can't find anywhere where he talks

1453
00:50:13,109 --> 00:50:11,119
about them he says he got them from

1454
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:13,119
allied reports and he mentions the

1455
00:50:16,549 --> 00:50:14,559
reports that he says he got them from

1456
00:50:18,309 --> 00:50:16,559
now i've looked at those reports i can't

1457
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:18,319
find anything so

1458
00:50:21,990 --> 00:50:20,240
again that's something else that you

1459
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:22,000
know i don't believe in but if you look

1460
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:23,440
across the internet and you look and you

1461
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:25,359
put in to put a search in for the foo

1462
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:27,119
fighters sooner or later you'll come

1463
00:50:32,470 --> 00:50:29,599
across cool blitz or fireball or the

1464
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:32,480
german discs or both and

1465
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:34,960
none of them are true you know right or

1466
00:50:38,069 --> 00:50:36,480
or if they are

1467
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:38,079
i've yet to see the evidence for them

1468
00:50:42,150 --> 00:50:39,520
see that's the problem i think that

1469
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:42,160
that's the problem with um ufo books

1470
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:44,480
across the board but especially

1471
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:46,240
these books that people come out with

1472
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:48,480
who um we're talking off here martin

1473
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:50,640
about this how uh you know the germans

1474
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:53,359
had uh help from aliens and uh you know

1475
00:50:56,790 --> 00:50:55,040
they had a base on the moon and they had

1476
00:50:59,430 --> 00:50:56,800
a base in antarctica

1477
00:51:02,069 --> 00:50:59,440
and the jumping bell right

1478
00:51:07,109 --> 00:51:04,150
and you see what the problem with that

1479
00:51:10,549 --> 00:51:07,119
is is that you know in my opinion

1480
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:10,559
is that um it furthers this idea that

1481
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:12,480
the nazis were supermen

1482
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:14,800
and um you know that's just not a good

1483
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:17,040
uh you know train of thought these days

1484
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:19,680
okay and you have to

1485
00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:21,599
ask yourself if you choose to believe

1486
00:51:25,349 --> 00:51:23,200
this if you choose to believe that they

1487
00:51:27,910 --> 00:51:25,359
had a base on the moon that they were

1488
00:51:29,670 --> 00:51:27,920
you know in touch with the planet 40 uh

1489
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:29,680
light years from earth and they're

1490
00:51:32,549 --> 00:51:31,200
helping them with their secret weapons

1491
00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:32,559
and so on

1492
00:51:37,270 --> 00:51:35,040
uh why did they lose the war exactly you

1493
00:51:39,270 --> 00:51:37,280
know i mean just just ask yourself that

1494
00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:39,280
question with all this unbelievable

1495
00:51:42,710 --> 00:51:41,280
extraterrestrial help

1496
00:51:46,950 --> 00:51:42,720
why would they lose the war why were

1497
00:51:48,069 --> 00:51:46,960
they building their me 262 jet fighters

1498
00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:48,079
with um

1499
00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:49,280
plywood

1500
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:51,040
cockpits because they didn't have enough

1501
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:52,480
metal

1502
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:55,599
you know does this sound like a a super

1503
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:58,160
army of supermen who are getting help

1504
00:52:02,630 --> 00:52:00,640
from aliens and so on because the allies

1505
00:52:03,990 --> 00:52:02,640
thought that the germans were were

1506
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:04,000
not quite superman but they thought they

1507
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:06,000
had advanced weapons which they did but

1508
00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:07,200
all the way through the intelligence

1509
00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:09,200
reports not just on the rf side but also

1510
00:52:12,230 --> 00:52:10,960
on the american side you see these

1511
00:52:13,990 --> 00:52:12,240
references to

1512
00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:14,000
you know what weapons are these what

1513
00:52:18,309 --> 00:52:15,920
german weapons are these

1514
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:18,319
now right rock the german and they

1515
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:20,160
attribute them to early types of

1516
00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:22,559
service-to-air missile or to

1517
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:25,040
the jets that max just referred to but

1518
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:26,160
actually when you look at the history

1519
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:27,200
and this is something i used to be

1520
00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:29,440
really interested in so i can speak with

1521
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:31,920
some authority on the on the issue um

1522
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:33,680
the missile projects

1523
00:52:37,589 --> 00:52:36,240
they started developing in 1943 but they

1524
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:37,599
had problems with the guidance systems

1525
00:52:41,430 --> 00:52:39,440
they had problems with the rocket motors

1526
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:41,440
and everything in between and they never

1527
00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:43,119
managed to field an operational

1528
00:52:45,990 --> 00:52:44,720
service-to-air missile

1529
00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:46,000
even at the end of the war they had

1530
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:48,000
plans to put one in into production but

1531
00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:50,160
it never it never went ahead but yet

1532
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:51,839
these things were being seen as early as

1533
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:54,480
as 1942 they were calling them rockets

1534
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:56,480
so and the germans had about 50

1535
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:57,599
different types of missile and

1536
00:53:00,470 --> 00:52:59,520
development during the war right but

1537
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:00,480
there was only one or two they're

1538
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:04,950
there was a couple of those a couple of

1539
00:53:09,030 --> 00:53:06,720
uh air-to-air missiles that nearly got

1540
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:09,040
into into service so and there's a few

1541
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:11,839
air service missiles as well um but they

1542
00:53:15,670 --> 00:53:13,520
were and you see in the intelligence

1543
00:53:17,430 --> 00:53:15,680
records some of these are mentioned but

1544
00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:17,440
none of them could have done the kind of

1545
00:53:21,270 --> 00:53:19,359
maneuvers or the performance that the

1546
00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:21,280
the foo fighters and these other objects

1547
00:53:25,030 --> 00:53:23,200
that were being seen on a regular basis

1548
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:25,040
could have carried out

1549
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:26,640
and then you talk about the jets and

1550
00:53:31,109 --> 00:53:28,000
also the rocket aircraft that the

1551
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:31,119
germans had now the the germans fielded

1552
00:53:35,109 --> 00:53:33,520
both the measurement 163 comet the the

1553
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:35,119
the rocket fighter and also the

1554
00:53:39,349 --> 00:53:37,520
magistrate 262 the jet fighter in the

1555
00:53:41,829 --> 00:53:39,359
summer in 1944

1556
00:53:43,349 --> 00:53:41,839
now as far as night time was concerned

1557
00:53:45,270 --> 00:53:43,359
the comet never flew at night because it

1558
00:53:48,069 --> 00:53:45,280
was too dangerous to fly in the day

1559
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:48,079
and the 262 only came into service in

1560
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:50,160
january and the first two seaters the

1561
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:51,920
proper knight fighter at the end of

1562
00:53:55,910 --> 00:53:53,760
march 1945 right before the end of the

1563
00:53:57,109 --> 00:53:55,920
war and yet the allies were seeing these

1564
00:53:58,790 --> 00:53:57,119
aircraft all they said they were

1565
00:54:01,589 --> 00:53:58,800
reporting seeing them as early as

1566
00:54:03,109 --> 00:54:01,599
september and october 1944 at night

1567
00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:03,119
and they are and there's actually bits

1568
00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:04,400
in the archives when you can see through

1569
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:07,280
their squadron reports you'll see um

1570
00:54:11,829 --> 00:54:08,960
reports of gunners saying they shot

1571
00:54:13,270 --> 00:54:11,839
these down so there's all these reports

1572
00:54:14,549 --> 00:54:13,280
that what actually were they shot it was

1573
00:54:16,150 --> 00:54:14,559
shooting down then because they weren't

1574
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:16,160
night fighters and yet these things were

1575
00:54:21,030 --> 00:54:18,640
basically just described as really quick

1576
00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:21,040
moving lights very fast moving lights

1577
00:54:26,230 --> 00:54:23,760
with very little form behind them so

1578
00:54:28,390 --> 00:54:26,240
interesting okay well it's time for us

1579
00:54:30,790 --> 00:54:28,400
to go into break we have a three minute

1580
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:30,800
music break so hang in there we'll be

1581
00:54:36,069 --> 00:54:33,920
right back um over at kgr a radio we'll

1582
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:36,079
be right back right after these messages

1583
00:55:02,780 --> 00:54:38,720
and hang in on youtube for the music

1584
00:56:53,440 --> 00:55:27,130
[Music]

1585
00:56:53,450 --> 00:57:23,950
[Applause]

1586
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:37,910
[Music]

1587
00:57:43,510 --> 00:57:40,950
all right welcome back to the show uh my

1588
00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:43,520
guest tonight is graham uh randall and i

1589
00:57:47,349 --> 00:57:44,400
have

1590
00:57:50,710 --> 00:57:47,359
mac maloney helping me out i love facts

1591
00:57:52,870 --> 00:57:50,720
uh this guy is really good um he has his

1592
00:57:54,789 --> 00:57:52,880
facts down and i'm really enjoying the

1593
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:54,799
show a lot i hope you are too

1594
00:57:58,230 --> 00:57:55,680
and

1595
00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:58,240
bringing mac back in

1596
00:58:01,829 --> 00:57:59,599
graham uh

1597
00:58:03,589 --> 00:58:01,839
i'm really enjoying this so far so we

1598
00:58:05,270 --> 00:58:03,599
have about just to let you know about

1599
00:58:06,549 --> 00:58:05,280
half half hour in we're going to be

1600
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:06,559
popping up the

1601
00:58:10,069 --> 00:58:08,559
phone number and people can call in if

1602
00:58:10,870 --> 00:58:10,079
they'd like to but before we get right

1603
00:58:11,829 --> 00:58:10,880
back

1604
00:58:15,270 --> 00:58:11,839
into

1605
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:15,280
this this uh question came up early on

1606
00:58:19,109 --> 00:58:16,880
and uh

1607
00:58:21,430 --> 00:58:19,119
uh david wanted to know did you see this

1608
00:58:22,870 --> 00:58:21,440
has to do with aviation that's the only

1609
00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:22,880
reason he was asking this question

1610
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:24,880
because he knows you like aviation so

1611
00:58:28,950 --> 00:58:27,200
you didn't see this particularly sorry

1612
00:58:32,309 --> 00:58:28,960
i didn't i didn't catch up with that

1613
00:58:34,069 --> 00:58:32,319
yep no problem um so i know there are

1614
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:34,079
some other there are some other

1615
00:58:38,150 --> 00:58:36,240
questions here and please if you are

1616
00:58:42,069 --> 00:58:38,160
going to post questions in chat please

1617
00:58:43,829 --> 00:58:42,079
use all caps so i don't i don't miss it

1618
00:58:45,190 --> 00:58:43,839
and i don't even know where we were

1619
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:45,200
exactly

1620
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:46,400
um

1621
00:58:52,789 --> 00:58:48,880
you know what i'll talk about the what i

1622
00:58:58,710 --> 00:58:55,990
because there was a big uh push um even

1623
00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:58,720
before the allies invaded europe

1624
00:59:01,910 --> 00:59:00,480
they had they'd already organized a

1625
00:59:03,750 --> 00:59:01,920
system where they were going to look

1626
00:59:05,109 --> 00:59:03,760
through whatever they captured in

1627
00:59:07,030 --> 00:59:05,119
germany when they finally defeated

1628
00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:07,040
germany to what they would find in terms

1629
00:59:11,430 --> 00:59:09,200
of technology because also they knew

1630
00:59:13,829 --> 00:59:11,440
they had jet fighters rocket fighters

1631
00:59:15,109 --> 00:59:13,839
you know rockets and other types of

1632
00:59:17,349 --> 00:59:15,119
things well because

1633
00:59:19,270 --> 00:59:17,359
there were advances in dentistry in in

1634
00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:19,280
pharmaceuticals everything they were

1635
00:59:23,589 --> 00:59:21,920
going to exploit so they had this system

1636
00:59:26,069 --> 00:59:23,599
called well science for the british side

1637
00:59:27,910 --> 00:59:26,079
and a bias for the british side and

1638
00:59:29,829 --> 00:59:27,920
science for the for the american side

1639
00:59:31,670 --> 00:59:29,839
and it was a combined intelligence

1640
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:31,680
objectives subcommittee that was what

1641
00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:34,240
science stood for so and they had

1642
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:36,640
regular meetings before d-day uh to say

1643
00:59:39,510 --> 00:59:37,920
what they were going to do and then when

1644
00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:39,520
we started going through europe and

1645
00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:41,040
started going through france and belgium

1646
00:59:46,230 --> 00:59:43,920
and holland and into germany they knew

1647
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:46,240
where things were they knew facilities

1648
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:47,280
they knew

1649
00:59:51,430 --> 00:59:49,200
factories that they would target and

1650
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:51,440
people out to start with to grab them to

1651
00:59:55,990 --> 00:59:54,000
seize them to stop them being destroyed

1652
00:59:57,990 --> 00:59:56,000
to hold on to scientists and other

1653
01:00:00,390 --> 00:59:58,000
people to get paperwork all this kind of

1654
01:00:02,870 --> 01:00:00,400
thing so there was teams of people

1655
01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:02,880
fanning out all over germany um at the

1656
01:00:07,190 --> 01:00:05,040
end of the war british american they

1657
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:07,200
were looking for technology

1658
01:00:10,230 --> 01:00:08,400
aircraft

1659
01:00:12,390 --> 01:00:10,240
weapons rockets

1660
01:00:15,670 --> 01:00:12,400
anything you name it yep

1661
01:00:17,670 --> 01:00:15,680
now these the the actual um update and

1662
01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:17,680
the progress reports from these teams

1663
01:00:22,230 --> 01:00:20,640
and from this work is in the records you

1664
01:00:24,150 --> 01:00:22,240
can find it you can actually search in

1665
01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:24,160
the air force

1666
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:26,240
historic records agency in maxwell air

1667
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:28,400
force base in alabama you can you know

1668
01:00:32,230 --> 01:00:29,920
you can get their information through

1669
01:00:33,510 --> 01:00:32,240
them that's where i got mine from and

1670
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:33,520
you can look through all these science

1671
01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:35,280
and bios reports to see what they were

1672
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:37,359
looking at then the wall and you know

1673
01:00:40,309 --> 01:00:38,640
there's hundreds and thousands of pages

1674
01:00:40,950 --> 01:00:40,319
of it all but i've gone through a lot of

1675
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:40,960
it

1676
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:43,280
and and you can see the kind of

1677
01:00:46,390 --> 01:00:44,799
developments that the germans were doing

1678
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:46,400
now at the time they were saying they

1679
01:00:50,309 --> 01:00:48,160
were going through the rubble of german

1680
01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:50,319
aviation industry and the weapons plants

1681
01:00:54,710 --> 01:00:51,839
and all the rest of it and they didn't

1682
01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:54,720
find anything that remotely resembled

1683
01:00:58,950 --> 01:00:56,559
what these things were doing during the

1684
01:01:00,309 --> 01:00:58,960
war not just the lights in the nighttime

1685
01:01:01,430 --> 01:01:00,319
but the objects that were seeing in the

1686
01:01:03,270 --> 01:01:01,440
daytime as well because they weren't

1687
01:01:05,589 --> 01:01:03,280
just lights at night they were seeing

1688
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:05,599
structured craft and things were a bit

1689
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:08,160
more ephemeral as well during the day

1690
01:01:12,150 --> 01:01:10,480
but nothing ever came of

1691
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:12,160
what they were looking for

1692
01:01:16,230 --> 01:01:14,319
and the russians did presumably the

1693
01:01:18,150 --> 01:01:16,240
russians had their own of you know they

1694
01:01:20,069 --> 01:01:18,160
had a name for their teams and they were

1695
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:20,079
doing exactly the same in this here but

1696
01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:21,520
they never found anything at all no one

1697
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:23,440
found anything i mean the germans did

1698
01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:27,599
have a tv guided bomb okay now

1699
01:01:31,829 --> 01:01:29,760
you know and and and think about that

1700
01:01:34,390 --> 01:01:31,839
that this is in the mid 40s or you know

1701
01:01:35,829 --> 01:01:34,400
44 or so it tank at least one ship in

1702
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:35,839
the mediterranean now just think about

1703
01:01:40,150 --> 01:01:37,920
that for a second they actually had a tv

1704
01:01:42,630 --> 01:01:40,160
camera in the nose of a bomb and they it

1705
01:01:45,109 --> 01:01:42,640
was launched from an aircraft and they

1706
01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:45,119
you know they guided it to its target on

1707
01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:47,359
the ground they didn't work all the time

1708
01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:49,119
it was very kind of hard to work with

1709
01:01:53,510 --> 01:01:51,040
obviously it was

1710
01:01:54,470 --> 01:01:53,520
kind of primitive technology but hey you

1711
01:01:57,029 --> 01:01:54,480
know it's still good when you think

1712
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:57,039
about technology-wise in the 47 the tv

1713
01:02:01,109 --> 01:01:59,200
guided bomb but that that was almost

1714
01:02:03,349 --> 01:02:01,119
like the peak of you know their

1715
01:02:05,510 --> 01:02:03,359
technology that was that was really

1716
01:02:07,589 --> 01:02:05,520
really up there okay to

1717
01:02:09,750 --> 01:02:07,599
to you know fall for these stories that

1718
01:02:11,910 --> 01:02:09,760
you know people saw flying saucers

1719
01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:11,920
shooting down b-17s during the raids on

1720
01:02:17,829 --> 01:02:14,880
shine foot and stuff like that and

1721
01:02:21,109 --> 01:02:17,839
yeah that's an interesting story

1722
01:02:24,390 --> 01:02:22,789
who write these things and who go out

1723
01:02:25,750 --> 01:02:24,400
and lecture about them and make movies

1724
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:25,760
about them i think they should be

1725
01:02:30,630 --> 01:02:28,000
ashamed of themselves it's a disgrace to

1726
01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:30,640
trying to you know try to you know keep

1727
01:02:34,470 --> 01:02:32,880
fomenting this as graham said you know

1728
01:02:37,109 --> 01:02:34,480
just look down

1729
01:02:38,630 --> 01:02:37,119
the line how many sources you know uh

1730
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:38,640
were involved in these things and they

1731
01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:40,720
always proved to be dead ends yeah um

1732
01:02:45,190 --> 01:02:43,039
and that's just like my personal bugaboo

1733
01:02:46,950 --> 01:02:45,200
i really don't like this whole idea that

1734
01:02:48,390 --> 01:02:46,960
uh you know the nazis had all these

1735
01:02:50,309 --> 01:02:48,400
great weapons

1736
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:50,319
and mentioned little black discs

1737
01:02:54,150 --> 01:02:52,240
and that that definitely existed in

1738
01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:54,160
terms of a report that definitely exists

1739
01:02:59,029 --> 01:02:57,359
in the 384th bomb group archives um and

1740
01:03:01,829 --> 01:02:59,039
they were like kind of hockey poker

1741
01:03:04,710 --> 01:03:01,839
sized uh black objects that fell on a

1742
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:04,720
raid of bombers um and supposed to have

1743
01:03:07,510 --> 01:03:06,640
maybe burned the wing of one of them so

1744
01:03:08,789 --> 01:03:07,520
there may have been some kind of

1745
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:08,799
incendiary weapon that was dropped by

1746
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:10,160
german aircraft there were certainly

1747
01:03:13,910 --> 01:03:11,760
experiments that came with cable

1748
01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:13,920
attached bombs and also other things

1749
01:03:16,789 --> 01:03:14,960
this is probably some kind of field

1750
01:03:19,029 --> 01:03:16,799
modification but that's sort of gone

1751
01:03:21,670 --> 01:03:19,039
into the lore of ufos and and foo

1752
01:03:23,109 --> 01:03:21,680
fighters as well um but some of the more

1753
01:03:25,589 --> 01:03:23,119
esoteric things like you know the

1754
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:25,599
zeppelin type size objects that were

1755
01:03:29,190 --> 01:03:27,039
seen and they were seen in eastern

1756
01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:29,200
europe as well um over the russian

1757
01:03:33,029 --> 01:03:30,720
battlefields that were seen in romania

1758
01:03:34,630 --> 01:03:33,039
and some other places right so yeah you

1759
01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:34,640
can't really account for those because

1760
01:03:38,069 --> 01:03:35,760
they're huge

1761
01:03:39,910 --> 01:03:38,079
um but also the black triangles as well

1762
01:03:42,309 --> 01:03:39,920
over over northumberland and england

1763
01:03:43,670 --> 01:03:42,319
can't account for them so easily and

1764
01:03:45,670 --> 01:03:43,680
there's a whole load of other things as

1765
01:03:48,069 --> 01:03:45,680
well um and even these things that look

1766
01:03:49,589 --> 01:03:48,079
like jets but weren't actually jets uh

1767
01:03:51,910 --> 01:03:49,599
they were they were displaying the kind

1768
01:03:53,430 --> 01:03:51,920
of jet characteristics but were flying

1769
01:03:54,470 --> 01:03:53,440
long before the germans managed to field

1770
01:03:55,589 --> 01:03:54,480
them at night

1771
01:03:57,750 --> 01:03:55,599
you know those are something else that

1772
01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:57,760
can't be explained so there's a whole

1773
01:04:01,270 --> 01:03:59,599
load of things going on in the war and

1774
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:01,280
actually if you go earlier back so you

1775
01:04:06,309 --> 01:04:04,480
go to 41 42 43 and the reports from back

1776
01:04:07,910 --> 01:04:06,319
then they definitely can't be jets and

1777
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,920
rocket aircraft because the germans were

1778
01:04:11,430 --> 01:04:09,599
still trying to perfect them at that

1779
01:04:13,510 --> 01:04:11,440
time and they wouldn't have even been

1780
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:13,520
able to fly them at night so you can't

1781
01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:15,680
readily write off a lot of things as to

1782
01:04:19,190 --> 01:04:17,760
be german suit or weapons um i'd just

1783
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:19,200
like to make a plea before i go any

1784
01:04:23,109 --> 01:04:21,119
further don't mind if anybody out there

1785
01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:23,119
does have any documentation from the

1786
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:25,680
german side about what you know what

1787
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:28,079
they were seeing then i'd love to see it

1788
01:04:33,109 --> 01:04:30,240
and the ground yeah

1789
01:04:34,549 --> 01:04:33,119
please i'd love to see it um but you

1790
01:04:37,829 --> 01:04:34,559
know that that's the side of things that

1791
01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:37,839
is a bit weak um is is the access side

1792
01:04:41,349 --> 01:04:39,599
is the italian air force is the german

1793
01:04:42,870 --> 01:04:41,359
air force and even to a certain extent

1794
01:04:43,829 --> 01:04:42,880
the russians as well

1795
01:04:46,470 --> 01:04:43,839
obviously the russians are really

1796
01:04:48,710 --> 01:04:46,480
secretive even after the war as well for

1797
01:04:50,309 --> 01:04:48,720
obvious reasons so their documents are

1798
01:04:51,750 --> 01:04:50,319
few and far between when you look at

1799
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:51,760
their reports from the war the things

1800
01:04:55,829 --> 01:04:54,400
they said they saw there's a lot

1801
01:04:58,150 --> 01:04:55,839
leads you know left to be desired in

1802
01:04:59,750 --> 01:04:58,160
terms of the reporting in terms of units

1803
01:05:02,549 --> 01:04:59,760
that just don't exist you can't find out

1804
01:05:04,470 --> 01:05:02,559
which units these airmen belong to um

1805
01:05:06,789 --> 01:05:04,480
the aircraft they were flying on when

1806
01:05:09,029 --> 01:05:06,799
they saw these craft again you know

1807
01:05:10,150 --> 01:05:09,039
that's a bit suspect so you have to take

1808
01:05:11,109 --> 01:05:10,160
them with a pitch assault as well i'm

1809
01:05:13,109 --> 01:05:11,119
afraid

1810
01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:13,119
you know the the story about the raider

1811
01:05:20,789 --> 01:05:17,280
in los angeles in early 1942

1812
01:05:23,510 --> 01:05:20,799
um in february 42 they made 1941 was a

1813
01:05:25,109 --> 01:05:23,520
1942 was a movie that was made by um

1814
01:05:27,750 --> 01:05:25,119
stephen spielberg but this actually

1815
01:05:30,390 --> 01:05:27,760
happened in the middle of february um a

1816
01:05:33,990 --> 01:05:30,400
couple months after pearl harbor um

1817
01:05:36,710 --> 01:05:34,000
people you know saw on radar uh alex

1818
01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:36,720
military and also less press saw this

1819
01:05:42,630 --> 01:05:40,079
large formation of your lights uh going

1820
01:05:45,109 --> 01:05:42,640
over los angeles uh licensed at the time

1821
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:45,119
was a weapon center especially burbank

1822
01:05:48,630 --> 01:05:47,440
so they had anti-aircraft

1823
01:05:50,950 --> 01:05:48,640
batteries there

1824
01:05:53,430 --> 01:05:50,960
shot at these things for hours so much

1825
01:05:54,630 --> 01:05:53,440
uh shrapnel came down that six people

1826
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:54,640
were killed on

1827
01:05:58,630 --> 01:05:56,480
on the ground well some of them were

1828
01:06:00,710 --> 01:05:58,640
heart attacks or heart attacks too as

1829
01:06:03,349 --> 01:06:00,720
well and there's there's a picture that

1830
01:06:05,109 --> 01:06:03,359
was taken by the los angeles times i

1831
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:05,119
know that because they charged me 500

1832
01:06:10,150 --> 01:06:07,440
bucks to put in my book but you know

1833
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:10,160
that thing it looks like a flying saucer

1834
01:06:14,309 --> 01:06:12,960
that's an actual photograph and um they

1835
01:06:17,510 --> 01:06:14,319
determined that this thing might be two

1836
01:06:19,829 --> 01:06:17,520
to three hundred feet in length um

1837
01:06:21,430 --> 01:06:19,839
it in and at the time everyone just

1838
01:06:23,029 --> 01:06:21,440
assumed oh this is

1839
01:06:25,349 --> 01:06:23,039
japanese launching these things off

1840
01:06:26,710 --> 01:06:25,359
aircraft carriers whatever you know once

1841
01:06:28,390 --> 01:06:26,720
again there's one of these anecdotal

1842
01:06:31,190 --> 01:06:28,400
stories at the end of the war that the

1843
01:06:33,029 --> 01:06:31,200
japanese admiral said you know

1844
01:06:34,870 --> 01:06:33,039
it wasn't us whoever was doing it wasn't

1845
01:06:37,349 --> 01:06:34,880
us you might have thought it was us but

1846
01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:37,359
even if that is not true

1847
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:38,720
we just know for a fact that the

1848
01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:40,799
japanese did not have the technology to

1849
01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:43,520
to sail aircraft carrier past hawaii

1850
01:06:47,029 --> 01:06:45,680
never mind have one off the coast of

1851
01:06:48,710 --> 01:06:47,039
california

1852
01:06:50,150 --> 01:06:48,720
david muller does a good presentation

1853
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:50,160
there's a what is a good presentation he

1854
01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:52,079
did on youtube and you can find it if

1855
01:06:55,589 --> 01:06:54,000
you look hard in the first about the the

1856
01:06:57,589 --> 01:06:55,599
battle of los angeles the thing about

1857
01:06:59,829 --> 01:06:57,599
the craft that craft it's the same as

1858
01:07:01,750 --> 01:06:59,839
about the the the polish wellington that

1859
01:07:02,950 --> 01:07:01,760
uh tried to shoot that light if that had

1860
01:07:05,829 --> 01:07:02,960
been some kind of craft it would have

1861
01:07:08,309 --> 01:07:05,839
been shot down they fired 1400 rounds of

1862
01:07:09,910 --> 01:07:08,319
anti-aircraft shells at it you know so

1863
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:09,920
you you would have done some damage to

1864
01:07:13,190 --> 01:07:11,200
it at least it would have been brought

1865
01:07:15,270 --> 01:07:13,200
down if it had been anything uh you know

1866
01:07:16,630 --> 01:07:15,280
man-made so what the hell was it it

1867
01:07:18,630 --> 01:07:16,640
wasn't a balloon because it would be too

1868
01:07:20,789 --> 01:07:18,640
flimsy right that kind of firepower

1869
01:07:23,349 --> 01:07:20,799
wouldn't have been an aircraft either um

1870
01:07:26,069 --> 01:07:23,359
so you know nobody really knows what the

1871
01:07:27,589 --> 01:07:26,079
what that particular object was but

1872
01:07:28,950 --> 01:07:27,599
again that's just a precursor to what

1873
01:07:31,829 --> 01:07:28,960
happened afterwards the polish

1874
01:07:33,270 --> 01:07:31,839
wellington um the incident that's on the

1875
01:07:35,190 --> 01:07:33,280
book i've got behind me there that

1876
01:07:37,190 --> 01:07:35,200
happened exactly a month later but

1877
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:37,200
they've been other things um there's

1878
01:07:41,029 --> 01:07:39,280
hints in the intelligence records that

1879
01:07:44,069 --> 01:07:41,039
i've looked at and i'm still looking at

1880
01:07:46,470 --> 01:07:44,079
at the moment um which talk about

1881
01:07:49,430 --> 01:07:46,480
things following bombers throughout late

1882
01:07:51,029 --> 01:07:49,440
1940 into 1941 and this is the raf i'm

1883
01:07:53,109 --> 01:07:51,039
talking about here and they've got this

1884
01:07:54,630 --> 01:07:53,119
detailed analysis where they see these

1885
01:07:56,630 --> 01:07:54,640
lights that are following them and they

1886
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:56,640
think they're night fighters but then

1887
01:07:59,670 --> 01:07:57,920
they can't work out what type of

1888
01:08:02,069 --> 01:07:59,680
aircraft's involved which is quite

1889
01:08:04,470 --> 01:08:02,079
strange but also some of the aircraft

1890
01:08:06,309 --> 01:08:04,480
have fallen for 250 miles

1891
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:06,319
and they'll fall towards their targets

1892
01:08:09,510 --> 01:08:07,920
now i can almost understand why you

1893
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:09,520
might want to follow an aircraft back to

1894
01:08:12,390 --> 01:08:10,880
its base

1895
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:12,400
right and the germans would know that

1896
01:08:15,270 --> 01:08:13,920
anyway they had pretty good intelligence

1897
01:08:17,349 --> 01:08:15,280
they were photographing our airfields

1898
01:08:19,510 --> 01:08:17,359
before the war um

1899
01:08:21,189 --> 01:08:19,520
but also the idea was that you'd shoot

1900
01:08:22,870 --> 01:08:21,199
an aircraft down before it bombed your

1901
01:08:25,030 --> 01:08:22,880
cities and that was the whole idea of

1902
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:25,040
the german platform so why were these

1903
01:08:29,189 --> 01:08:27,359
things following but even better still

1904
01:08:30,870 --> 01:08:29,199
why the hell do they have lights on you

1905
01:08:32,709 --> 01:08:30,880
know the idea if you're a night fighter

1906
01:08:34,950 --> 01:08:32,719
pilot the last thing you want to do is

1907
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:34,960
have something that says here i am shut

1908
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:36,960
me down you know

1909
01:08:41,829 --> 01:08:39,440
it just didn't make any sense whatsoever

1910
01:08:43,430 --> 01:08:41,839
but the raf well they call it the

1911
01:08:44,870 --> 01:08:43,440
operational research section it was part

1912
01:08:47,189 --> 01:08:44,880
of bomber command it was now part of

1913
01:08:50,590 --> 01:08:47,199
their intelligence analysis and they

1914
01:08:53,430 --> 01:08:50,600
looked at this problem for months in

1915
01:08:55,669 --> 01:08:53,440
1941 and early 1942

1916
01:08:57,189 --> 01:08:55,679
um and they did

1917
01:08:58,789 --> 01:08:57,199
you say these reports month after month

1918
01:09:00,870 --> 01:08:58,799
they have these tables of numbers of

1919
01:09:02,789 --> 01:09:00,880
aircraft involved and whether there was

1920
01:09:04,470 --> 01:09:02,799
lights following them or it was unknown

1921
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:04,480
aircraft all this kind of stuff and they

1922
01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:06,319
never got the bottom of this they just

1923
01:09:10,390 --> 01:09:07,920
couldn't fathom it out and they got to a

1924
01:09:12,229 --> 01:09:10,400
point in sort of mid to late 1942 when

1925
01:09:13,590 --> 01:09:12,239
they went enough's enough we spent all

1926
01:09:14,789 --> 01:09:13,600
this time on trying to work it out and

1927
01:09:17,430 --> 01:09:14,799
we can't

1928
01:09:19,030 --> 01:09:17,440
um so we're stopping this but about two

1929
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:19,040
or three months later they kicked it off

1930
01:09:21,910 --> 01:09:20,880
again because it was still going on and

1931
01:09:23,189 --> 01:09:21,920
they spent about another couple of

1932
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:23,199
months and you can steal the reports for

1933
01:09:26,550 --> 01:09:24,719
those as well and then they finally just

1934
01:09:28,229 --> 01:09:26,560
called it a day because they weren't

1935
01:09:29,829 --> 01:09:28,239
getting anywhere these lights weren't

1936
01:09:31,990 --> 01:09:29,839
doing anything hostile they weren't

1937
01:09:33,590 --> 01:09:32,000
shooting the bombers down they weren't

1938
01:09:35,430 --> 01:09:33,600
they couldn't work out what they were

1939
01:09:37,030 --> 01:09:35,440
they had no purpose

1940
01:09:38,229 --> 01:09:37,040
and yet they were still happening but

1941
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:38,239
they've been fighter pilots have been

1942
01:09:43,990 --> 01:09:40,799
for um followed back from cross-channel

1943
01:09:45,990 --> 01:09:44,000
raids as well um in 1942 which had

1944
01:09:47,590 --> 01:09:46,000
lights following them as well so the you

1945
01:09:49,990 --> 01:09:47,600
know it wasn't just the bombers um you

1946
01:09:51,749 --> 01:09:50,000
know intruder fighter pilots were having

1947
01:09:53,110 --> 01:09:51,759
the same problems as well there's lots

1948
01:09:53,829 --> 01:09:53,120
of different stories

1949
01:09:56,310 --> 01:09:53,839
right

1950
01:09:57,750 --> 01:09:56,320
contemporary to the time you know during

1951
01:09:58,550 --> 01:09:57,760
that time

1952
01:10:01,990 --> 01:09:58,560
um

1953
01:10:04,229 --> 01:10:02,000
was there ever a suggestion that they

1954
01:10:06,870 --> 01:10:04,239
could be something

1955
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:06,880
not from this world somehow never yeah

1956
01:10:10,229 --> 01:10:08,640
it was never on the lexicon so

1957
01:10:11,669 --> 01:10:10,239
everything was couched in the terms of

1958
01:10:13,350 --> 01:10:11,679
german certain weapons you have to

1959
01:10:15,030 --> 01:10:13,360
remember back then there was only if you

1960
01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:15,040
know not many people were interested in

1961
01:10:17,830 --> 01:10:16,560
science fiction yes there were

1962
01:10:19,669 --> 01:10:17,840
publications yet there were pulp

1963
01:10:21,590 --> 01:10:19,679
magazines there were novels but it

1964
01:10:24,149 --> 01:10:21,600
wasn't as big as it would become in the

1965
01:10:26,870 --> 01:10:24,159
golden age of the 50s so you know there

1966
01:10:28,550 --> 01:10:26,880
was only a few people uh everybody just

1967
01:10:30,709 --> 01:10:28,560
left to the conclusion that they must be

1968
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:30,719
german secret weapons i can't speak for

1969
01:10:35,590 --> 01:10:32,640
the access reaction because again we're

1970
01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:35,600
hampered by the lack of documentation

1971
01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:37,920
and actual reports the germans obviously

1972
01:10:42,790 --> 01:10:40,480
for for good reason didn't want to talk

1973
01:10:44,630 --> 01:10:42,800
about the war straight after the war

1974
01:10:46,229 --> 01:10:44,640
so that's why you don't have the number

1975
01:10:48,630 --> 01:10:46,239
of people who came forward to talk about

1976
01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:48,640
their experiences um and i've yet to

1977
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:50,320
actually come across any proper pilot

1978
01:10:55,189 --> 01:10:53,040
reports you know uh that bear any kind

1979
01:10:56,070 --> 01:10:55,199
of scrutiny so what happened from that

1980
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:56,080
side

1981
01:11:00,390 --> 01:10:58,480
again it's all anecdotal but in terms of

1982
01:11:02,149 --> 01:11:00,400
the raf experience and the in the united

1983
01:11:04,390 --> 01:11:02,159
states army air force experience yeah

1984
01:11:06,470 --> 01:11:04,400
they they saw things but they just wrote

1985
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:06,480
them off as being german super weapons

1986
01:11:08,630 --> 01:11:07,360
that's

1987
01:11:10,070 --> 01:11:08,640
definitely true of the intelligence

1988
01:11:12,390 --> 01:11:10,080
reporting and that's in black and white

1989
01:11:14,229 --> 01:11:12,400
you can read that for yourself

1990
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:14,239
did they ever destroy did the germans

1991
01:11:18,790 --> 01:11:16,000
ever destroy any of their wartime

1992
01:11:20,870 --> 01:11:18,800
documents oh yeah they they they had a

1993
01:11:21,990 --> 01:11:20,880
big policy of destroying stuff there's a

1994
01:11:24,229 --> 01:11:22,000
whole there's a whole year of

1995
01:11:25,669 --> 01:11:24,239
information that went um when they had a

1996
01:11:26,550 --> 01:11:25,679
big purge on it just before the end of

1997
01:11:28,149 --> 01:11:26,560
the war they were trying to destroy

1998
01:11:30,070 --> 01:11:28,159
things left right and center they tried

1999
01:11:32,149 --> 01:11:30,080
to destroy prototypes of aircraft they

2000
01:11:34,149 --> 01:11:32,159
were quite successful in some respects

2001
01:11:35,350 --> 01:11:34,159
but there was always something left that

2002
01:11:38,070 --> 01:11:35,360
there was aircraft that they tried to

2003
01:11:39,270 --> 01:11:38,080
destroy by burying them in tunnels um or

2004
01:11:41,030 --> 01:11:39,280
just like getting rid of them but

2005
01:11:43,189 --> 01:11:41,040
actually the allies still found them or

2006
01:11:44,630 --> 01:11:43,199
found documentation on them um some of

2007
01:11:45,910 --> 01:11:44,640
the really weird and wonderful stuff

2008
01:11:48,550 --> 01:11:45,920
like the vertical takeoff rocket

2009
01:11:50,790 --> 01:11:48,560
interceptor called the the nutter um

2010
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:50,800
it's got fully it's fully documented

2011
01:11:54,630 --> 01:11:52,640
there's actually pictures there's video

2012
01:11:56,229 --> 01:11:54,640
there's everything uh not videos film

2013
01:11:58,229 --> 01:11:56,239
that there's everything about it even

2014
01:11:59,830 --> 01:11:58,239
the the designer you know is on record

2015
01:12:01,510 --> 01:11:59,840
about talking about it so a lot of these

2016
01:12:03,510 --> 01:12:01,520
things are really hard to actually kill

2017
01:12:05,750 --> 01:12:03,520
off in terms of getting rid of every

2018
01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:05,760
scrap of knowledge about them um so

2019
01:12:09,189 --> 01:12:07,040
that's why i find it very hard to

2020
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:09,199
believe that esoteric stuff like the

2021
01:12:13,669 --> 01:12:11,520
discs or these aerial flak mines ever

2022
01:12:15,189 --> 01:12:13,679
existed and the germans certainly didn't

2023
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:15,199
build the foo fighters it was nothing to

2024
01:12:19,189 --> 01:12:17,760
do with them at all right if it had been

2025
01:12:20,630 --> 01:12:19,199
it was definitely been found after the

2026
01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:20,640
war there would have been something that

2027
01:12:24,470 --> 01:12:22,480
would have led the allies to believe

2028
01:12:26,070 --> 01:12:24,480
that they had it they questioned a lot

2029
01:12:27,830 --> 01:12:26,080
of german scientists i've got that in my

2030
01:12:30,070 --> 01:12:27,840
book about the questioning that happened

2031
01:12:32,229 --> 01:12:30,080
um and the form of words they used and

2032
01:12:33,910 --> 01:12:32,239
the people they spoke to and some very

2033
01:12:35,510 --> 01:12:33,920
very prominent german

2034
01:12:37,669 --> 01:12:35,520
aeronautic engineers and other

2035
01:12:39,990 --> 01:12:37,679
scientists et cetera et cetera and and

2036
01:12:41,270 --> 01:12:40,000
this went on throughout 1945 but they

2037
01:12:42,870 --> 01:12:41,280
got nowhere with that as well because

2038
01:12:44,470 --> 01:12:42,880
the germans just said we don't know

2039
01:12:46,310 --> 01:12:44,480
anything about this

2040
01:12:48,470 --> 01:12:46,320
and it's um i mean the the nazi

2041
01:12:50,390 --> 01:12:48,480
scientists put the united states on the

2042
01:12:52,550 --> 01:12:50,400
moon i mean a lot of the scientists that

2043
01:12:54,070 --> 01:12:52,560
they picked up in operation paperclip

2044
01:12:55,510 --> 01:12:54,080
werniver and braun

2045
01:12:57,030 --> 01:12:55,520
you know probably the most famous one of

2046
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:57,040
them all now when you think about that

2047
01:13:07,750 --> 01:12:57,840
he

2048
01:13:09,189 --> 01:13:07,760
ufos

2049
01:13:12,630 --> 01:13:09,199
why would you go down that route you

2050
01:13:15,669 --> 01:13:13,669
right of course we were talking about

2051
01:13:16,790 --> 01:13:15,679
the flying wings as well so there was it

2052
01:13:18,390 --> 01:13:16,800
was a company called there's a couple of

2053
01:13:19,910 --> 01:13:18,400
brothers called horton

2054
01:13:21,590 --> 01:13:19,920
and they built flying wing aircraft

2055
01:13:23,030 --> 01:13:21,600
before the war but they also flocked

2056
01:13:24,709 --> 01:13:23,040
they built them during the war and they

2057
01:13:26,470 --> 01:13:24,719
came up with a jet fighter or jet

2058
01:13:29,350 --> 01:13:26,480
fighter bomber actually called the it

2059
01:13:31,030 --> 01:13:29,360
was called the horton nine um and

2060
01:13:32,630 --> 01:13:31,040
there's stories around the internet that

2061
01:13:34,470 --> 01:13:32,640
this is the basis of the flying wings

2062
01:13:35,750 --> 01:13:34,480
and the thing that kenneth arnold saw

2063
01:13:36,630 --> 01:13:35,760
but actually that's a bit off as well

2064
01:13:38,550 --> 01:13:36,640
because

2065
01:13:39,830 --> 01:13:38,560
there's also reports that the russians

2066
01:13:42,070 --> 01:13:39,840
built fleets of these things as night

2067
01:13:44,790 --> 01:13:42,080
fighters and that's an official cia

2068
01:13:45,990 --> 01:13:44,800
reports but it's all rubbish as well so

2069
01:13:47,750 --> 01:13:46,000
you know there was a lot of schools of

2070
01:13:49,669 --> 01:13:47,760
thought straight after the war saying oh

2071
01:13:51,270 --> 01:13:49,679
the russians must have got a hold of

2072
01:13:52,709 --> 01:13:51,280
this technology and they must be

2073
01:13:54,870 --> 01:13:52,719
developing it and this is what we're

2074
01:13:57,430 --> 01:13:54,880
seeing now but again that's all just

2075
01:13:59,590 --> 01:13:57,440
rubbish um and also the fact that and

2076
01:14:01,910 --> 01:13:59,600
people suggest that nother

2077
01:14:03,189 --> 01:14:01,920
uh jack nothrop looked at these things

2078
01:14:06,470 --> 01:14:03,199
as well well he certainly had people

2079
01:14:09,030 --> 01:14:06,480
examine the uh the the v3 prototype of

2080
01:14:10,709 --> 01:14:09,040
the of the horton uh jet bomber that uh

2081
01:14:12,709 --> 01:14:10,719
the jet fighter bomb rather they brought

2082
01:14:14,709 --> 01:14:12,719
across to america after the wall that he

2083
01:14:16,070 --> 01:14:14,719
certainly had engineers look at it but

2084
01:14:18,470 --> 01:14:16,080
they didn't do anything else with it

2085
01:14:20,550 --> 01:14:18,480
because well it never appeared anywhere

2086
01:14:22,310 --> 01:14:20,560
and he continued to build flying wings

2087
01:14:24,149 --> 01:14:22,320
afterwards but he never built anything

2088
01:14:25,750 --> 01:14:24,159
that looked like that so

2089
01:14:28,390 --> 01:14:25,760
these people who think these were the

2090
01:14:29,910 --> 01:14:28,400
basis of ufos i think that sort of

2091
01:14:31,430 --> 01:14:29,920
barking at the wrong tree the only

2092
01:14:33,990 --> 01:14:31,440
strange thing about the hortons that

2093
01:14:36,630 --> 01:14:34,000
we're talking about is real quick is um

2094
01:14:38,870 --> 01:14:36,640
what kenneth arnold saw that day

2095
01:14:39,990 --> 01:14:38,880
uh which started the whole flying saucer

2096
01:14:42,470 --> 01:14:40,000
craze

2097
01:14:44,310 --> 01:14:42,480
i mean if if you put together the this

2098
01:14:47,510 --> 01:14:44,320
horton prototype that we're just talking

2099
01:14:49,110 --> 01:14:47,520
about and what he described they look

2100
01:14:50,950 --> 01:14:49,120
kind of the same you know it's got a

2101
01:14:53,590 --> 01:14:50,960
loose it's got a loose resemblance but

2102
01:14:54,870 --> 01:14:53,600
if you remember i believe it was only

2103
01:14:56,870 --> 01:14:54,880
one of them looked like that all the

2104
01:14:59,110 --> 01:14:56,880
rest were heel-shaped oh yeah okay he

2105
01:15:00,950 --> 01:14:59,120
talks about that so

2106
01:15:01,750 --> 01:15:00,960
again it's one of these things where

2107
01:15:04,149 --> 01:15:01,760
these

2108
01:15:05,590 --> 01:15:04,159
facts are sort of propagated into yeah

2109
01:15:07,430 --> 01:15:05,600
this definitely happened but actually

2110
01:15:09,830 --> 01:15:07,440
when you dig a bit deeper i think you

2111
01:15:10,950 --> 01:15:09,840
find that the truth is slightly blurred

2112
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:10,960
um but

2113
01:15:13,350 --> 01:15:12,080
that's the same with you followed you

2114
01:15:14,950 --> 01:15:13,360
all over this is what we have to deal

2115
01:15:16,070 --> 01:15:14,960
with don't we

2116
01:15:17,590 --> 01:15:16,080
i'll tell you graeme you do your

2117
01:15:19,750 --> 01:15:17,600
homework there brother

2118
01:15:21,669 --> 01:15:19,760
um well i certainly didn't hopefully do

2119
01:15:23,350 --> 01:15:21,679
better at this than i do that's for sure

2120
01:15:25,110 --> 01:15:23,360
i mean i'm not i don't blow my own

2121
01:15:26,630 --> 01:15:25,120
treatment here but there's 1100

2122
01:15:28,709 --> 01:15:26,640
footnotes in that book

2123
01:15:30,950 --> 01:15:28,719
so that's where the that's where the

2124
01:15:32,790 --> 01:15:30,960
information comes from i didn't want

2125
01:15:34,950 --> 01:15:32,800
anybody like five years down the line to

2126
01:15:36,550 --> 01:15:34,960
say graeme you just made this up i've

2127
01:15:38,550 --> 01:15:36,560
seen i've read too much i've read too

2128
01:15:40,149 --> 01:15:38,560
many books where i've not been able to

2129
01:15:41,830 --> 01:15:40,159
work out where the author got the

2130
01:15:43,110 --> 01:15:41,840
information from right and i didn't want

2131
01:15:43,910 --> 01:15:43,120
to be one of those

2132
01:15:45,510 --> 01:15:43,920
so

2133
01:15:47,430 --> 01:15:45,520
when i set out writing it i thought you

2134
01:15:49,270 --> 01:15:47,440
know everything i find out i'm going to

2135
01:15:50,950 --> 01:15:49,280
let people know so they can do their own

2136
01:15:52,470 --> 01:15:50,960
research so if somebody wants to go

2137
01:15:54,550 --> 01:15:52,480
through my book and find look i want to

2138
01:15:56,550 --> 01:15:54,560
check graham's sources i want to check

2139
01:15:58,630 --> 01:15:56,560
his facts then they're quite welcome to

2140
01:16:00,149 --> 01:15:58,640
do that and if they that uses if that's

2141
01:16:01,510 --> 01:16:00,159
a springboard for them to find out other

2142
01:16:03,350 --> 01:16:01,520
information that i haven't managed to

2143
01:16:05,669 --> 01:16:03,360
find that's great yeah that's the whole

2144
01:16:11,510 --> 01:16:05,679
yeah that's the um the horton 229 or

2145
01:16:14,390 --> 01:16:13,030
yeah

2146
01:16:17,110 --> 01:16:14,400
something similar

2147
01:16:19,030 --> 01:16:17,120
but but yeah yeah i'm really really

2148
01:16:21,750 --> 01:16:19,040
enjoying the show so

2149
01:16:24,870 --> 01:16:21,760
did any of these foo fighters ever

2150
01:16:27,270 --> 01:16:24,880
display anything that seemed like it

2151
01:16:28,950 --> 01:16:27,280
could have been a threat

2152
01:16:30,630 --> 01:16:28,960
there was certainly

2153
01:16:31,990 --> 01:16:30,640
well it depends on what you call a

2154
01:16:33,510 --> 01:16:32,000
threat

2155
01:16:35,189 --> 01:16:33,520
anything that was flying around in the

2156
01:16:37,110 --> 01:16:35,199
skies following aircraft was going to be

2157
01:16:39,590 --> 01:16:37,120
trapped as a threat so that was just

2158
01:16:42,310 --> 01:16:39,600
standard practice and they were fired at

2159
01:16:44,470 --> 01:16:42,320
but in terms of retaliation then nothing

2160
01:16:46,229 --> 01:16:44,480
that we know about that doesn't mean

2161
01:16:48,870 --> 01:16:46,239
something was shot down that we don't

2162
01:16:51,350 --> 01:16:48,880
know about and they all died but there's

2163
01:16:52,870 --> 01:16:51,360
no stories of you know sort of attacks

2164
01:16:55,189 --> 01:16:52,880
on anything like that

2165
01:16:58,149 --> 01:16:55,199
um the nearest you've got are things on

2166
01:17:00,390 --> 01:16:58,159
collision courses um things that

2167
01:17:02,870 --> 01:17:00,400
may or may not have

2168
01:17:04,470 --> 01:17:02,880
sort of collided with aircraft or or hit

2169
01:17:05,910 --> 01:17:04,480
them or things like that and that

2170
01:17:07,110 --> 01:17:05,920
shoulder black discs that mike was

2171
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:07,120
talking about earlier it's actually a

2172
01:17:11,350 --> 01:17:09,520
stuttgart rate in 1943 but also there's

2173
01:17:12,950 --> 01:17:11,360
cases in italy as well where the same

2174
01:17:14,709 --> 01:17:12,960
phenomenon was seen

2175
01:17:17,510 --> 01:17:14,719
and this was probably some kind of

2176
01:17:19,750 --> 01:17:17,520
german aerial weapon probably like a an

2177
01:17:21,270 --> 01:17:19,760
aerial bomb with fragments coming out of

2178
01:17:22,870 --> 01:17:21,280
it that was designed to like just

2179
01:17:25,189 --> 01:17:22,880
interfere with aircraft by falling on

2180
01:17:26,390 --> 01:17:25,199
them um so i'm not entirely sure that's

2181
01:17:27,830 --> 01:17:26,400
got anything to do with this particular

2182
01:17:30,630 --> 01:17:27,840
subject i've covered in the book at

2183
01:17:32,070 --> 01:17:30,640
length uh just so people are aware of it

2184
01:17:33,110 --> 01:17:32,080
but i think that's probably the nearest

2185
01:17:35,030 --> 01:17:33,120
you're going to get to any kind of

2186
01:17:36,470 --> 01:17:35,040
proper threat

2187
01:17:38,470 --> 01:17:36,480
but who knows what happened in other

2188
01:17:40,709 --> 01:17:38,480
countries and who knows about the people

2189
01:17:43,030 --> 01:17:40,719
who say didn't come back from raids so

2190
01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:43,040
it's possible but we don't know about it

2191
01:17:46,790 --> 01:17:45,120
yeah there's no doubt i mean the little

2192
01:17:48,149 --> 01:17:46,800
bit that you know we looked into the foo

2193
01:17:50,550 --> 01:17:48,159
fighters there was never we could never

2194
01:17:52,070 --> 01:17:50,560
find anything that had foo fighters

2195
01:17:54,310 --> 01:17:52,080
firing back

2196
01:17:55,430 --> 01:17:54,320
at you know our planes or anything it

2197
01:17:56,709 --> 01:17:55,440
just seemed to me like they were

2198
01:18:01,030 --> 01:17:56,719
observing

2199
01:18:02,310 --> 01:18:01,040
know uh one of the things we do

2200
01:18:03,910 --> 01:18:02,320
in our book is

2201
01:18:05,430 --> 01:18:03,920
that they might have been time travelers

2202
01:18:07,270 --> 01:18:05,440
from the future coming back and seeing

2203
01:18:08,070 --> 01:18:07,280
history being made

2204
01:18:09,990 --> 01:18:08,080
well

2205
01:18:12,709 --> 01:18:10,000
you know because they didn't seem to be

2206
01:18:14,950 --> 01:18:12,719
observing you know looking in on us for

2207
01:18:16,550 --> 01:18:14,960
some reason yeah

2208
01:18:19,750 --> 01:18:16,560
yeah i mean

2209
01:18:20,870 --> 01:18:19,760
that's actually not a bad theory really

2210
01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:20,880
you know

2211
01:18:26,390 --> 01:18:24,480
i mean it i mean i if you were if you

2212
01:18:30,070 --> 01:18:26,400
were to speculate i mean if someone was

2213
01:18:32,229 --> 01:18:30,080
to speculate what they possibly could be

2214
01:18:34,790 --> 01:18:32,239
it's not an outrageous theory i mean you

2215
01:18:37,270 --> 01:18:34,800
can have uh and mac i like what you said

2216
01:18:39,510 --> 01:18:37,280
earlier you said maybe we don't even

2217
01:18:40,709 --> 01:18:39,520
understand or we don't even know

2218
01:18:41,750 --> 01:18:40,719
um

2219
01:18:44,229 --> 01:18:41,760
you know

2220
01:18:46,470 --> 01:18:44,239
what if we if we if it was explained to

2221
01:18:48,630 --> 01:18:46,480
us we may not be going to understand

2222
01:18:50,470 --> 01:18:48,640
what the explanation is right sure

2223
01:18:52,550 --> 01:18:50,480
that's the thing

2224
01:18:54,550 --> 01:18:52,560
we um you know i use this example

2225
01:18:55,830 --> 01:18:54,560
sometimes where you know when you see

2226
01:18:58,310 --> 01:18:55,840
these um

2227
01:19:00,550 --> 01:18:58,320
tv shows like um national geographic

2228
01:19:02,149 --> 01:19:00,560
where out in the serengeti or whatever

2229
01:19:04,070 --> 01:19:02,159
you know the the lions are eating the

2230
01:19:05,830 --> 01:19:04,080
antelopes and you know

2231
01:19:07,030 --> 01:19:05,840
killing stuff right things killing

2232
01:19:09,270 --> 01:19:07,040
things now

2233
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:09,280
you know the film crew is out there

2234
01:19:13,750 --> 01:19:11,280
watching the lions eat the gazelles and

2235
01:19:16,709 --> 01:19:13,760
stuff okay the the the lions are so used

2236
01:19:18,070 --> 01:19:16,719
to these trucks and safari trucks that

2237
01:19:20,390 --> 01:19:18,080
you know they just walk by them like

2238
01:19:22,149 --> 01:19:20,400
they're just something else but see the

2239
01:19:23,669 --> 01:19:22,159
hawaiians are the gazelles they can

2240
01:19:25,590 --> 01:19:23,679
never understand you know what those

2241
01:19:27,430 --> 01:19:25,600
trucks are about what humans are about

2242
01:19:28,550 --> 01:19:27,440
what cameras are about you know they

2243
01:19:30,950 --> 01:19:28,560
don't have

2244
01:19:33,110 --> 01:19:30,960
the intelligence to understand what is

2245
01:19:34,790 --> 01:19:33,120
going on well maybe we

2246
01:19:36,870 --> 01:19:34,800
we're just a little bit down further

2247
01:19:39,110 --> 01:19:36,880
down in the lab than we think we are and

2248
01:19:40,950 --> 01:19:39,120
the explanation is something we can't

2249
01:19:42,310 --> 01:19:40,960
understand just as long just

2250
01:19:45,430 --> 01:19:42,320
just as well as our mind can't

2251
01:19:47,669 --> 01:19:45,440
understand what a camera is you know

2252
01:19:48,950 --> 01:19:47,679
you know it's a possibility because only

2253
01:19:50,630 --> 01:19:48,960
because these things have been around

2254
01:19:52,390 --> 01:19:50,640
for years we've you know we're talking

2255
01:19:53,669 --> 01:19:52,400
about you know the last century but

2256
01:19:56,709 --> 01:19:53,679
let's face it they've been seen for

2257
01:19:59,430 --> 01:19:56,719
years and years and years okay but but

2258
01:20:01,830 --> 01:19:59,440
no one nowhere has ever really come up

2259
01:20:02,630 --> 01:20:01,840
with okay this is the explanation this

2260
01:20:07,189 --> 01:20:02,640
is

2261
01:20:09,590 --> 01:20:07,199
sense uh that if anybody if anybody says

2262
01:20:11,350 --> 01:20:09,600
they're an expert on ufos run like hell

2263
01:20:13,990 --> 01:20:11,360
yeah right there's no such a thing you

2264
01:20:15,669 --> 01:20:14,000
know it's a big mystery and

2265
01:20:17,270 --> 01:20:15,679
you know i'm hoping that we find out

2266
01:20:19,590 --> 01:20:17,280
someday um

2267
01:20:21,110 --> 01:20:19,600
but you know again maybe we just aren't

2268
01:20:23,510 --> 01:20:21,120
smart enough to

2269
01:20:26,310 --> 01:20:23,520
comprehend it yeah

2270
01:20:28,870 --> 01:20:26,320
yeah this is uh i'm not sure what this

2271
01:20:30,550 --> 01:20:28,880
is this was sent to me yesterday i'm

2272
01:20:32,470 --> 01:20:30,560
trying to i've been trying to text

2273
01:20:35,270 --> 01:20:32,480
someone one whatever italy

2274
01:20:36,870 --> 01:20:35,280
what's that it's over italy i believe

2275
01:20:38,470 --> 01:20:36,880
oh you know you know this particularly

2276
01:20:39,910 --> 01:20:38,480
sure i've seen a picture before i think

2277
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:39,920
it's over italy but i can't remember

2278
01:20:44,629 --> 01:20:42,480
exactly where and when yeah i was trying

2279
01:20:46,870 --> 01:20:44,639
to find that out um i had seen that

2280
01:20:49,189 --> 01:20:46,880
image before too but i

2281
01:20:52,229 --> 01:20:49,199
it looks it looks old but you know prior

2282
01:20:53,110 --> 01:20:52,239
to the 1940s i have no idea no i think

2283
01:20:57,430 --> 01:20:53,120
it's more

2284
01:20:59,110 --> 01:20:57,440
can't see i can't remember exactly the

2285
01:21:00,870 --> 01:20:59,120
circumstances where it was taken but i

2286
01:21:03,030 --> 01:21:00,880
think it's italian air force and i think

2287
01:21:05,669 --> 01:21:03,040
it's in the 60s or maybe the 70s

2288
01:21:07,270 --> 01:21:05,679
i i see i see um

2289
01:21:09,350 --> 01:21:07,280
as far as

2290
01:21:11,990 --> 01:21:09,360
um you know the the germans going back

2291
01:21:14,310 --> 01:21:12,000
to them because that fascinates me i

2292
01:21:16,550 --> 01:21:14,320
i think i mean do i have this right were

2293
01:21:20,310 --> 01:21:16,560
they the first ones to develop something

2294
01:21:22,229 --> 01:21:20,320
like the jet engine or was that um

2295
01:21:24,070 --> 01:21:22,239
depends the certain people mucking about

2296
01:21:25,750 --> 01:21:24,080
with jet engines in the 1930s so you had

2297
01:21:27,510 --> 01:21:25,760
the italians they had a kind of a

2298
01:21:30,149 --> 01:21:27,520
strange contraption was part jet engine

2299
01:21:31,990 --> 01:21:30,159
park piston engine uh the the the

2300
01:21:34,390 --> 01:21:32,000
germans did invent and they had actually

2301
01:21:36,070 --> 01:21:34,400
a jet engine aircraft flying just before

2302
01:21:39,430 --> 01:21:36,080
the start of the second world war in

2303
01:21:41,110 --> 01:21:39,440
august 1939 where the brits also were

2304
01:21:44,950 --> 01:21:41,120
fiddling about with jet engines as early

2305
01:21:46,070 --> 01:21:44,960
as 1935 1936 so they did actually have

2306
01:21:47,830 --> 01:21:46,080
them and but the germans were the

2307
01:21:50,709 --> 01:21:47,840
quickest to exploit them in terms of

2308
01:21:52,950 --> 01:21:50,719
having an operational weapon so they had

2309
01:21:53,990 --> 01:21:52,960
a jet aircraft

2310
01:21:55,910 --> 01:21:54,000
in terms of something that could have

2311
01:21:58,629 --> 01:21:55,920
been used as a weapon flying in about

2312
01:22:00,310 --> 01:21:58,639
1941 but it took a while to it was

2313
01:22:02,390 --> 01:22:00,320
protracted in terms of development

2314
01:22:04,390 --> 01:22:02,400
because in 1941 the germans thought

2315
01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:04,400
they'd won the war already so they'd

2316
01:22:10,229 --> 01:22:06,719
scale back a lot of their long-term

2317
01:22:11,990 --> 01:22:10,239
research into things so it slowed down

2318
01:22:13,270 --> 01:22:12,000
and by the time that you know they had

2319
01:22:16,229 --> 01:22:13,280
to sort of speed up again it was a bit

2320
01:22:18,149 --> 01:22:16,239
too late um and also hitler um decided

2321
01:22:20,390 --> 01:22:18,159
that the measurement 262 which was the

2322
01:22:22,790 --> 01:22:20,400
the best candidate for feeling a

2323
01:22:24,709 --> 01:22:22,800
jet aircraft had to be a bomber rather

2324
01:22:26,629 --> 01:22:24,719
than a fighter he couldn't understand

2325
01:22:28,229 --> 01:22:26,639
why you know it was better more suited

2326
01:22:30,149 --> 01:22:28,239
as a fighter so they had to put bomb

2327
01:22:31,910 --> 01:22:30,159
racks on it and which slowed it down

2328
01:22:33,110 --> 01:22:31,920
which wasn't really suited for but it

2329
01:22:35,270 --> 01:22:33,120
was a really good airframe it just

2330
01:22:37,110 --> 01:22:35,280
didn't have very good engines um they

2331
01:22:39,350 --> 01:22:37,120
only last maybe 30 hours and then they

2332
01:22:41,510 --> 01:22:39,360
would either break or had to be so hard

2333
01:22:42,790 --> 01:22:41,520
to be serviced so they were very crude

2334
01:22:44,709 --> 01:22:42,800
and if you actually open the throttles

2335
01:22:48,390 --> 01:22:44,719
up too hard too quickly they would catch

2336
01:22:51,110 --> 01:22:48,400
fire so they were very very unsafe but

2337
01:22:54,550 --> 01:22:51,120
after the rocket engine aircraft that

2338
01:22:56,070 --> 01:22:54,560
the 163 comet which again people say was

2339
01:22:58,070 --> 01:22:56,080
an explanation for the food fights which

2340
01:22:59,590 --> 01:22:58,080
couldn't have been but that was even

2341
01:23:01,590 --> 01:22:59,600
dangerous to fly in the daytime it had

2342
01:23:02,790 --> 01:23:01,600
no it had no undercarriage it was

2343
01:23:05,430 --> 01:23:02,800
launched off a dolly which was

2344
01:23:07,510 --> 01:23:05,440
jettisoned after takeoff the the rocket

2345
01:23:08,790 --> 01:23:07,520
fuel only lasted about seven minutes

2346
01:23:11,590 --> 01:23:08,800
then it became the world's fastest

2347
01:23:14,629 --> 01:23:11,600
glider it could nearly touch mach 1 in a

2348
01:23:16,149 --> 01:23:14,639
dive and so quick but when it landed

2349
01:23:18,550 --> 01:23:16,159
there was still the fuel on board and it

2350
01:23:20,310 --> 01:23:18,560
was two really volatile fuels one of

2351
01:23:22,070 --> 01:23:20,320
which would actually burst into flames

2352
01:23:23,990 --> 01:23:22,080
of church anything organic which

2353
01:23:27,030 --> 01:23:24,000
included the pilot

2354
01:23:28,870 --> 01:23:27,040
oh god t staff and staff

2355
01:23:30,709 --> 01:23:28,880
yeah and they were um they were so

2356
01:23:32,149 --> 01:23:30,719
volatile when they were put together

2357
01:23:34,310 --> 01:23:32,159
that's what created the chemical

2358
01:23:35,669 --> 01:23:34,320
reaction that make the rocket go but

2359
01:23:37,830 --> 01:23:35,679
when they they would store them at

2360
01:23:39,830 --> 01:23:37,840
opposite ends of the airfields because

2361
01:23:42,310 --> 01:23:39,840
they just had to prevent these two

2362
01:23:44,629 --> 01:23:42,320
things the tankers had big cheese and

2363
01:23:46,790 --> 01:23:44,639
seas painted on them so nobody would

2364
01:23:49,030 --> 01:23:46,800
spook them because if you put one drop

2365
01:23:51,669 --> 01:23:49,040
of one on the other it would explode

2366
01:23:54,229 --> 01:23:51,679
exploding yeah yeah it's crazy

2367
01:23:55,590 --> 01:23:54,239
that that sounds that sounds frightening

2368
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:55,600
but they never flew those aircraft at

2369
01:23:59,830 --> 01:23:57,120
night and this is the thing that i i do

2370
01:24:01,669 --> 01:23:59,840
try to get pains to explain in the book

2371
01:24:04,229 --> 01:24:01,679
that a lot of these aircraft were never

2372
01:24:05,750 --> 01:24:04,239
fielded at the times they were seen or

2373
01:24:07,110 --> 01:24:05,760
at all so they couldn't have been

2374
01:24:09,510 --> 01:24:07,120
explanations even though they were put

2375
01:24:11,830 --> 01:24:09,520
up as explanations both in the war and

2376
01:24:12,709 --> 01:24:11,840
afterwards and even the rockets and the

2377
01:24:14,470 --> 01:24:12,719
missiles that they were trying to

2378
01:24:16,149 --> 01:24:14,480
develop as well these were things that

2379
01:24:18,229 --> 01:24:16,159
were put forward as possible

2380
01:24:20,310 --> 01:24:18,239
explanations by the intelligence people

2381
01:24:22,390 --> 01:24:20,320
and by the pilots and the air crew but

2382
01:24:24,870 --> 01:24:22,400
again you know the non-starters for the

2383
01:24:27,830 --> 01:24:24,880
reasons i go into much more length in

2384
01:24:29,110 --> 01:24:27,840
the book but um yeah it's it's it's a

2385
01:24:30,950 --> 01:24:29,120
crazy time

2386
01:24:32,709 --> 01:24:30,960
but the good thing is this is the first

2387
01:24:35,189 --> 01:24:32,719
time there was a lot of documentation

2388
01:24:37,270 --> 01:24:35,199
that you can look at so even like 80

2389
01:24:39,590 --> 01:24:37,280
years ahead you know ahead now we can

2390
01:24:41,189 --> 01:24:39,600
look back and actually see the reports

2391
01:24:43,590 --> 01:24:41,199
that they were writing about what they

2392
01:24:45,430 --> 01:24:43,600
were seeing it's not just verbal reports

2393
01:24:48,070 --> 01:24:45,440
in in in

2394
01:24:51,110 --> 01:24:48,080
dusty documents and and books and handed

2395
01:24:52,550 --> 01:24:51,120
down by you know by verbal account

2396
01:24:53,990 --> 01:24:52,560
these are actually things in records

2397
01:24:56,629 --> 01:24:54,000
that you can touch you can feel you can

2398
01:24:58,470 --> 01:24:56,639
read and it's the first time it happened

2399
01:24:59,750 --> 01:24:58,480
but they must have it must have been a

2400
01:25:01,430 --> 01:24:59,760
bit of a stigma really because they

2401
01:25:03,430 --> 01:25:01,440
didn't work out what they were and then

2402
01:25:05,830 --> 01:25:03,440
two or three years later the whole thing

2403
01:25:07,350 --> 01:25:05,840
kicked off again with the flying saucers

2404
01:25:08,870 --> 01:25:07,360
and you know they must have just been

2405
01:25:09,990 --> 01:25:08,880
scratching the head thing we're going

2406
01:25:11,270 --> 01:25:10,000
through this again you know what

2407
01:25:13,350 --> 01:25:11,280
happened right you didn't have an answer

2408
01:25:14,790 --> 01:25:13,360
last time and it was the same people um

2409
01:25:17,830 --> 01:25:14,800
general stanford you know the the guy

2410
01:25:20,070 --> 01:25:17,840
who um was at that 1952 um you know the

2411
01:25:21,750 --> 01:25:20,080
press conference after the washington um

2412
01:25:23,990 --> 01:25:21,760
flying the the source and the radar

2413
01:25:25,910 --> 01:25:24,000
contacts when he stood when he sat in

2414
01:25:27,750 --> 01:25:25,920
and said there's no such thing he'd been

2415
01:25:30,229 --> 01:25:27,760
a deputy commander of the eighth air

2416
01:25:32,070 --> 01:25:30,239
force so he was well aware what was

2417
01:25:34,310 --> 01:25:32,080
going on back then and then you've got

2418
01:25:35,990 --> 01:25:34,320
the guy who effectively wrote the memo

2419
01:25:38,790 --> 01:25:36,000
that shot shut down

2420
01:25:40,950 --> 01:25:38,800
uh project blue book uh in 1969 the

2421
01:25:43,030 --> 01:25:40,960
bollinger memo now he was actually the

2422
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:43,040
ceo of one of the night fighter units in

2423
01:25:48,870 --> 01:25:45,440
italy that saw these things and he saw

2424
01:25:51,750 --> 01:25:48,880
his own sighting in 1944 so you know

2425
01:25:53,590 --> 01:25:51,760
there's links there as well

2426
01:25:55,430 --> 01:25:53,600
yeah the question is why did they keep

2427
01:25:57,270 --> 01:25:55,440
it why did they choose to lie about it

2428
01:25:58,870 --> 01:25:57,280
you know

2429
01:26:00,870 --> 01:25:58,880
i mean you always hear very well they

2430
01:26:02,070 --> 01:26:00,880
have no way of combating it i think

2431
01:26:03,990 --> 01:26:02,080
there's no way you're not adding

2432
01:26:05,750 --> 01:26:04,000
anything

2433
01:26:07,189 --> 01:26:05,760
they've got no defense against them

2434
01:26:09,990 --> 01:26:07,199
they've got nothing there's nothing they

2435
01:26:11,590 --> 01:26:10,000
can do some things never change yeah

2436
01:26:12,709 --> 01:26:11,600
exactly exactly

2437
01:26:14,790 --> 01:26:12,719
the way it is

2438
01:26:16,870 --> 01:26:14,800
in the wheel isn't it yeah exactly right

2439
01:26:19,590 --> 01:26:16,880
yeah yeah i mean some of the things you

2440
01:26:21,430 --> 01:26:19,600
read from all the way back then are ex

2441
01:26:25,910 --> 01:26:21,440
very similar to the things that are

2442
01:26:28,870 --> 01:26:27,510
what the what the navy's doing i mean

2443
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:28,880
it's interesting what the congress is

2444
01:26:32,070 --> 01:26:30,480
doing because they the first time you

2445
01:26:33,189 --> 01:26:32,080
know in september they did come out and

2446
01:26:34,950 --> 01:26:33,199
they admitted

2447
01:26:36,709 --> 01:26:34,960
we don't know what these things are and

2448
01:26:38,470 --> 01:26:36,719
we actually view them as

2449
01:26:40,310 --> 01:26:38,480
kind of safety problems that was another

2450
01:26:43,510 --> 01:26:40,320
thing they kind of dragged that air

2451
01:26:47,030 --> 01:26:43,520
safety idea uh into uh you know that six

2452
01:26:48,870 --> 01:26:47,040
page report that they came out with uh

2453
01:26:50,390 --> 01:26:48,880
they they admitted we don't know what

2454
01:26:51,350 --> 01:26:50,400
these things are they've never done that

2455
01:26:53,430 --> 01:26:51,360
before

2456
01:26:56,310 --> 01:26:53,440
and and that's a little you know that's

2457
01:26:58,550 --> 01:26:56,320
a little um puzzling i think

2458
01:27:00,790 --> 01:26:58,560
yeah yeah just to let you know the lines

2459
01:27:02,149 --> 01:27:00,800
are open um

2460
01:27:05,189 --> 01:27:02,159
if you look over to the side you'll see

2461
01:27:07,270 --> 01:27:05,199
a private chat and that will let us know

2462
01:27:09,990 --> 01:27:07,280
when someone comes in so if you are

2463
01:27:11,910 --> 01:27:10,000
calling in for a question for our guest

2464
01:27:12,709 --> 01:27:11,920
just make sure that you you know turn

2465
01:27:14,550 --> 01:27:12,719
your

2466
01:27:16,470 --> 01:27:14,560
whatever you're listening to off once uh

2467
01:27:18,149 --> 01:27:16,480
bill answers he'll tell you that anyway

2468
01:27:24,310 --> 01:27:18,159
but bill standing by to screen your

2469
01:27:27,750 --> 01:27:26,709
again bill is standing by uh what are

2470
01:27:28,790 --> 01:27:27,760
those

2471
01:27:31,910 --> 01:27:28,800
basic

2472
01:27:33,910 --> 01:27:31,920
um sizes that you know the diversity of

2473
01:27:36,470 --> 01:27:33,920
these things that are seen and also i

2474
01:27:38,550 --> 01:27:36,480
want to know about the colors of i

2475
01:27:41,030 --> 01:27:38,560
talked to a guy that was flying in i

2476
01:27:42,390 --> 01:27:41,040
think it was an f-16 an older model

2477
01:27:44,790 --> 01:27:42,400
whatever they were

2478
01:27:47,030 --> 01:27:44,800
and said that he had a a green orb

2479
01:27:50,550 --> 01:27:47,040
following him for 300 miles in the air

2480
01:27:53,430 --> 01:27:50,560
force um so what uh what are what are

2481
01:27:56,470 --> 01:27:53,440
some of the colors and sizes red orange

2482
01:27:58,870 --> 01:27:56,480
yellow white green blue different colors

2483
01:28:01,510 --> 01:27:58,880
lots of different colors um you name it

2484
01:28:05,430 --> 01:28:01,520
they saw it in terms of shapes yeah

2485
01:28:07,270 --> 01:28:05,440
triangles circles ovals bathtubs uh long

2486
01:28:09,750 --> 01:28:07,280
torpedo shaped objects

2487
01:28:11,110 --> 01:28:09,760
some that just defy description so um

2488
01:28:13,830 --> 01:28:11,120
there was a craft that's supposed to

2489
01:28:16,550 --> 01:28:13,840
have landed in northern poland in july

2490
01:28:18,790 --> 01:28:16,560
1943 and it was made of like two kind of

2491
01:28:20,470 --> 01:28:18,800
halves with a kind of certainly a a

2492
01:28:22,390 --> 01:28:20,480
middle bit that rotated

2493
01:28:23,910 --> 01:28:22,400
um but there's very few stories of

2494
01:28:26,070 --> 01:28:23,920
actually things landing during the war

2495
01:28:28,950 --> 01:28:26,080
that's one of the few uh there's a story

2496
01:28:31,030 --> 01:28:28,960
in 1941 of a strange looking cloud where

2497
01:28:32,229 --> 01:28:31,040
luftwaffe aircraft were flying around it

2498
01:28:34,070 --> 01:28:32,239
and they were getting to the top of this

2499
01:28:35,510 --> 01:28:34,080
cloud and their engines were failing and

2500
01:28:37,669 --> 01:28:35,520
they were dropping down again and then

2501
01:28:39,110 --> 01:28:37,679
they were flying up again so there's all

2502
01:28:41,910 --> 01:28:39,120
sorts of weird and wonderful things that

2503
01:28:43,750 --> 01:28:41,920
were seen during the war um

2504
01:28:45,430 --> 01:28:43,760
there's some really weird stories out

2505
01:28:46,709 --> 01:28:45,440
there and they're all covered in the

2506
01:28:48,149 --> 01:28:46,719
book but

2507
01:28:50,550 --> 01:28:48,159
you know it's almost the case if it's

2508
01:28:53,270 --> 01:28:50,560
like a microcosm of what came out the

2509
01:28:55,030 --> 01:28:53,280
next sort of 80 years it was all packed

2510
01:28:56,709 --> 01:28:55,040
into those you know four or five years

2511
01:28:59,030 --> 01:28:56,719
of the wall

2512
01:29:01,510 --> 01:28:59,040
oh this i meant i meant to put this up

2513
01:29:03,189 --> 01:29:01,520
again uh this came up earlier do you see

2514
01:29:05,430 --> 01:29:03,199
a direct link between the foo fighters

2515
01:29:08,070 --> 01:29:05,440
in any modern ufo sightings

2516
01:29:09,830 --> 01:29:08,080
in terms of the disparity between what

2517
01:29:12,149 --> 01:29:09,840
we have and what well it's called for

2518
01:29:14,470 --> 01:29:12,159
better word they have then yes there's

2519
01:29:16,070 --> 01:29:14,480
that kind of gap but also there's the

2520
01:29:17,590 --> 01:29:16,080
the dog fighting and you might as well

2521
01:29:19,910 --> 01:29:17,600
call it that where they're almost

2522
01:29:22,629 --> 01:29:19,920
playing with our um sort of you know

2523
01:29:24,709 --> 01:29:22,639
best type of technology um and of course

2524
01:29:26,550 --> 01:29:24,719
we're still no further forward so

2525
01:29:29,030 --> 01:29:26,560
there's definitely links between what

2526
01:29:31,110 --> 01:29:29,040
was seen then and what we're seeing now

2527
01:29:33,030 --> 01:29:31,120
and in terms of the investigations we're

2528
01:29:34,870 --> 01:29:33,040
still at the same level we probably know

2529
01:29:37,270 --> 01:29:34,880
very little more about what we you know

2530
01:29:39,110 --> 01:29:37,280
about what's going on than we did then

2531
01:29:41,350 --> 01:29:39,120
um and the certain the same questions

2532
01:29:43,830 --> 01:29:41,360
are being asked now as what they were

2533
01:29:45,350 --> 01:29:43,840
back then as well so yeah it it there's

2534
01:29:48,870 --> 01:29:45,360
nothing changed

2535
01:29:50,310 --> 01:29:48,880
wow and okay and this question seems to

2536
01:29:52,870 --> 01:29:50,320
come up quite a bit i don't know if you

2537
01:29:56,950 --> 01:29:52,880
know anything about this at all zero

2538
01:30:00,950 --> 01:29:59,270
pardon me for the audio podcast um i

2539
01:30:02,390 --> 01:30:00,960
just have to say what the question is

2540
01:30:03,830 --> 01:30:02,400
michael asks what are the facts

2541
01:30:05,910 --> 01:30:03,840
regarding germany's interests in

2542
01:30:07,830 --> 01:30:05,920
antarctica before the war the germans

2543
01:30:09,350 --> 01:30:07,840
sent a ship down to antarctica um

2544
01:30:10,390 --> 01:30:09,360
because they called a bit of it it was

2545
01:30:13,030 --> 01:30:10,400
queen maudland they called it

2546
01:30:15,030 --> 01:30:13,040
neuschwabenland and they had a seaplane

2547
01:30:16,470 --> 01:30:15,040
fly from the from the ship and it

2548
01:30:18,629 --> 01:30:16,480
dropped some little swastika flags on

2549
01:30:20,550 --> 01:30:18,639
the ice and that was basically the sum

2550
01:30:22,709 --> 01:30:20,560
total of their their kind of involvement

2551
01:30:24,310 --> 01:30:22,719
in antarctica uh the stories about

2552
01:30:25,830 --> 01:30:24,320
u-boats going down there during the war

2553
01:30:28,550 --> 01:30:25,840
right at the end of the war never

2554
01:30:30,790 --> 01:30:28,560
happened uh the story is about base 211

2555
01:30:33,030 --> 01:30:30,800
which is that supposedly the nazi super

2556
01:30:34,470 --> 01:30:33,040
secret base on antarctica

2557
01:30:36,229 --> 01:30:34,480
said well that give me proof because i

2558
01:30:38,229 --> 01:30:36,239
just don't believe it and then of course

2559
01:30:40,790 --> 01:30:38,239
you've got admiral byrd's ill-fated

2560
01:30:43,669 --> 01:30:40,800
exploration uh later in the in the late

2561
01:30:45,910 --> 01:30:43,679
1940s where there was a task for a fleet

2562
01:30:47,910 --> 01:30:45,920
went down there with a lot of soldiers

2563
01:30:49,430 --> 01:30:47,920
and they tried to see if they could work

2564
01:30:51,350 --> 01:30:49,440
out to fight a war down there if they

2565
01:30:53,110 --> 01:30:51,360
ever needed to but because it was bad

2566
01:30:55,510 --> 01:30:53,120
weather and it was it was you know

2567
01:30:57,830 --> 01:30:55,520
winter for god's sake they they had

2568
01:31:00,149 --> 01:30:57,840
battering in terms of wind and waves and

2569
01:31:02,149 --> 01:31:00,159
they had to had to leave quite early

2570
01:31:03,750 --> 01:31:02,159
because it just wasn't working for them

2571
01:31:05,669 --> 01:31:03,760
but of course it's now blown into a

2572
01:31:07,430 --> 01:31:05,679
story about oh well they met a fleet of

2573
01:31:09,669 --> 01:31:07,440
german flying sources which attacked

2574
01:31:11,030 --> 01:31:09,679
them so they had to run that's the story

2575
01:31:13,110 --> 01:31:11,040
that's the narrative that's been built

2576
01:31:16,390 --> 01:31:13,120
up again if anybody's got any proof of

2577
01:31:18,149 --> 01:31:16,400
that great but so far there's none

2578
01:31:18,950 --> 01:31:18,159
we have we have a couple people on the

2579
01:31:21,750 --> 01:31:18,960
line

2580
01:31:23,990 --> 01:31:21,760
our first uh our first guest is earl

2581
01:31:26,790 --> 01:31:24,000
from washington state earl welcome to

2582
01:31:28,070 --> 01:31:26,800
the show you're live on the air

2583
01:31:30,950 --> 01:31:28,080
how you doing

2584
01:31:33,030 --> 01:31:30,960
um

2585
01:31:34,390 --> 01:31:33,040
good i like your style but i want to ask

2586
01:31:35,910 --> 01:31:34,400
you a serious question with the

2587
01:31:38,550 --> 01:31:35,920
conditions that we find ourselves in

2588
01:31:40,229 --> 01:31:38,560
today with this pandemic and all the

2589
01:31:43,189 --> 01:31:40,239
pictures that are popping up all around

2590
01:31:44,550 --> 01:31:43,199
the planet of these ufos spraying gases

2591
01:31:45,910 --> 01:31:44,560
out the back of their

2592
01:31:49,270 --> 01:31:45,920
ships

2593
01:31:51,430 --> 01:31:49,280
and knowing that we're in a petri dish

2594
01:31:53,590 --> 01:31:51,440
what is the why no i haven't heard

2595
01:31:56,229 --> 01:31:53,600
anybody even come up with the theory

2596
01:31:58,149 --> 01:31:56,239
that we're being poisoned

2597
01:32:00,229 --> 01:31:58,159
why would they do it why would they do

2598
01:32:01,910 --> 01:32:00,239
it

2599
01:32:03,830 --> 01:32:01,920
well you know there's been other people

2600
01:32:05,510 --> 01:32:03,840
that have been in you know disclosing

2601
01:32:07,189 --> 01:32:05,520
information about ufos over the years

2602
01:32:08,709 --> 01:32:07,199
and i've heard the one guy that went

2603
01:32:10,149 --> 01:32:08,719
down in the tunnel and got his fingers

2604
01:32:12,229 --> 01:32:10,159
blown off and then they found him dead

2605
01:32:14,149 --> 01:32:12,239
in portland years ago i heard him

2606
01:32:16,070 --> 01:32:14,159
mention that there was a certain amount

2607
01:32:18,149 --> 01:32:16,080
of people that they wanted dead on this

2608
01:32:20,070 --> 01:32:18,159
planet by a certain amount of time and

2609
01:32:22,629 --> 01:32:20,080
you're right why would they tell us

2610
01:32:24,870 --> 01:32:22,639
but what i'm getting at is that why why

2611
01:32:26,390 --> 01:32:24,880
the experts that you know i see the same

2612
01:32:28,149 --> 01:32:26,400
things that you see

2613
01:32:30,790 --> 01:32:28,159
and and i've heard the same thing that

2614
01:32:33,030 --> 01:32:30,800
you've heard over the years and it's

2615
01:32:34,310 --> 01:32:33,040
just it just makes sense to me i mean

2616
01:32:35,830 --> 01:32:34,320
and then when you think about it why

2617
01:32:37,669 --> 01:32:35,840
would the chinese start knocking off

2618
01:32:39,830 --> 01:32:37,679
their own people with this thing we know

2619
01:32:41,750 --> 01:32:39,840
fauci did this and did that in the other

2620
01:32:43,350 --> 01:32:41,760
but you saw

2621
01:32:45,350 --> 01:32:43,360
and i know if you've seen it or not but

2622
01:32:46,790 --> 01:32:45,360
it was one of the astronauts that went

2623
01:32:48,790 --> 01:32:46,800
up on the moon he's one that was into

2624
01:32:51,270 --> 01:32:48,800
the crater and then the the the

2625
01:32:53,830 --> 01:32:51,280
reptilians were surrounding him in the

2626
01:32:55,750 --> 01:32:53,840
crater and he's the one one of the uh

2627
01:32:57,510 --> 01:32:55,760
youtube shows i saw

2628
01:33:00,950 --> 01:32:57,520
and he was there was a woman that said i

2629
01:33:03,350 --> 01:33:00,960
got one i got one and she had a picture

2630
01:33:05,510 --> 01:33:03,360
of them that wasn't cloaked this one was

2631
01:33:08,149 --> 01:33:05,520
not cloaked there was two of them and

2632
01:33:10,229 --> 01:33:08,159
they were spraying gases out the back of

2633
01:33:13,030 --> 01:33:10,239
them in california

2634
01:33:15,750 --> 01:33:13,040
and now i mean listen one minute you got

2635
01:33:17,830 --> 01:33:15,760
something popping up over in uh in south

2636
01:33:19,910 --> 01:33:17,840
africa the next minute it's here within

2637
01:33:22,229 --> 01:33:19,920
two days i mean it's spraying all over

2638
01:33:25,030 --> 01:33:22,239
the planet and i've seen it in south

2639
01:33:25,830 --> 01:33:25,040
africa yeah i've seen it everywhere

2640
01:33:30,149 --> 01:33:25,840
well

2641
01:33:31,590 --> 01:33:30,159
any of this as far as you know what the

2642
01:33:33,750 --> 01:33:31,600
facts are i don't know if anyone wants

2643
01:33:35,510 --> 01:33:33,760
to comment on this i would just say um

2644
01:33:37,590 --> 01:33:35,520
you know if they're looking to kill

2645
01:33:39,189 --> 01:33:37,600
certain people on earth why are they

2646
01:33:41,110 --> 01:33:39,199
trying to kill everybody on earth they

2647
01:33:43,510 --> 01:33:41,120
should have the technology to hunt out

2648
01:33:46,470 --> 01:33:43,520
the people that they want to whack and

2649
01:33:49,270 --> 01:33:46,480
just go in and do it you know um

2650
01:33:51,189 --> 01:33:49,280
ufos are not spraying the uh covet virus

2651
01:33:53,510 --> 01:33:51,199
over us there's no such thing as

2652
01:33:55,189 --> 01:33:53,520
chemtrails um you know if you believe

2653
01:33:58,629 --> 01:33:55,199
that stuff you know i i think you should

2654
01:34:00,709 --> 01:33:58,639
get a hobby or a girlfriend or something

2655
01:34:02,149 --> 01:34:00,719
all right well i don't i don't buy i

2656
01:34:04,629 --> 01:34:02,159
don't buy the chemtrails either i'm

2657
01:34:06,790 --> 01:34:04,639
afraid i've um

2658
01:34:09,350 --> 01:34:06,800
the 1990s and just wrote it off back

2659
01:34:10,770 --> 01:34:09,360
then as well and so yeah

2660
01:34:12,629 --> 01:34:10,780
no offense earl but um

2661
01:34:15,030 --> 01:34:12,639
[Music]

2662
01:34:17,830 --> 01:34:15,040
this panel anyway who's on here right

2663
01:34:19,030 --> 01:34:17,840
now we don't buy um a lot of that stuff

2664
01:34:23,110 --> 01:34:19,040
maybe

2665
01:34:25,590 --> 01:34:23,120
information from but anyway we have uh

2666
01:34:28,070 --> 01:34:25,600
patrick now coming up on

2667
01:34:30,229 --> 01:34:28,080
from florida patrick welcome to the show

2668
01:34:32,629 --> 01:34:30,239
you're live

2669
01:34:37,590 --> 01:34:32,639
thank you my question is

2670
01:34:41,350 --> 01:34:37,600
uh prior to the trinity crash in 1945

2671
01:34:43,669 --> 01:34:41,360
did the american military have any

2672
01:34:46,709 --> 01:34:43,679
knowledge that these craft were

2673
01:34:52,390 --> 01:34:49,430
as far as we're aware no um so there's

2674
01:34:54,390 --> 01:34:52,400
no mention of aliens or or

2675
01:34:56,470 --> 01:34:54,400
extraterrestrials or anything like that

2676
01:34:59,030 --> 01:34:56,480
in the records now what they were

2677
01:35:00,950 --> 01:34:59,040
talking about privately i can't say

2678
01:35:02,229 --> 01:35:00,960
but in terms of things you can look at

2679
01:35:04,629 --> 01:35:02,239
and you can see and you can read for

2680
01:35:06,149 --> 01:35:04,639
yourself then no in terms of you

2681
01:35:07,910 --> 01:35:06,159
mentioned trinity so you're talking

2682
01:35:09,510 --> 01:35:07,920
about a nuclear connection there there

2683
01:35:13,669 --> 01:35:09,520
were certainly aircraft that was seen

2684
01:35:16,149 --> 01:35:13,679
over atomic research plants in 1945 um

2685
01:35:16,950 --> 01:35:16,159
but whether that's a link or not i can't

2686
01:35:19,750 --> 01:35:16,960
say

2687
01:35:21,109 --> 01:35:19,760
um but yes you know in terms of

2688
01:35:22,950 --> 01:35:21,119
are there

2689
01:35:25,189 --> 01:35:22,960
records that say we're looking at an

2690
01:35:26,870 --> 01:35:25,199
extraterrestrial threat or weapons or

2691
01:35:29,910 --> 01:35:26,880
anything like that i'm afraid not

2692
01:35:32,070 --> 01:35:29,920
there's nothing like that patrick sorry

2693
01:35:36,709 --> 01:35:32,080
patrick

2694
01:35:39,390 --> 01:35:36,719
are open if uh you want to make the call

2695
01:35:41,430 --> 01:35:39,400
that number is up there

2696
01:35:43,750 --> 01:35:41,440
855-472-5483 i just heard patrick's

2697
01:35:45,270 --> 01:35:43,760
feedback so if you are calling in make

2698
01:35:46,629 --> 01:35:45,280
sure you mute

2699
01:35:47,990 --> 01:35:46,639
mute your computer or whatever you're

2700
01:35:50,550 --> 01:35:48,000
listening to for

2701
01:35:52,950 --> 01:35:50,560
the the whole idea uh that that these

2702
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:52,960
things might be extraterrestrial really

2703
01:35:57,350 --> 01:35:54,719
really didn't start until the flying

2704
01:35:59,430 --> 01:35:57,360
saucer craze um you know it just seems

2705
01:36:00,950 --> 01:35:59,440
that way because you know during the war

2706
01:36:02,790 --> 01:36:00,960
as we've been saying all night it was

2707
01:36:04,790 --> 01:36:02,800
just a blanket like oh there must be

2708
01:36:06,870 --> 01:36:04,800
someone else's secret weapons we have a

2709
01:36:08,229 --> 01:36:06,880
water wind it's kind of on the back

2710
01:36:10,149 --> 01:36:08,239
burner you know if we win the wall we'll

2711
01:36:13,030 --> 01:36:10,159
find out and that's basically what they

2712
01:36:14,950 --> 01:36:13,040
did but you know back and then in 1947

2713
01:36:16,950 --> 01:36:14,960
for some reason we're a little bit yeah

2714
01:36:18,310 --> 01:36:16,960
just edging up to the space race that

2715
01:36:19,910 --> 01:36:18,320
type of thing science fiction was a

2716
01:36:22,470 --> 01:36:19,920
little more popular

2717
01:36:24,390 --> 01:36:22,480
um you know who knows why and and and

2718
01:36:25,990 --> 01:36:24,400
the country was bored you know

2719
01:36:27,910 --> 01:36:26,000
and all of a sudden hey these things

2720
01:36:29,350 --> 01:36:27,920
might be from outer space

2721
01:36:31,030 --> 01:36:29,360
and you're seeing little green men from

2722
01:36:32,550 --> 01:36:31,040
mars um

2723
01:36:35,030 --> 01:36:32,560
but before that

2724
01:36:36,550 --> 01:36:35,040
i don't think anyone way back when uh

2725
01:36:38,070 --> 01:36:36,560
you know that churchill's story

2726
01:36:39,830 --> 01:36:38,080
notwithstanding

2727
01:36:41,109 --> 01:36:39,840
thought that hey these things are from

2728
01:36:42,950 --> 01:36:41,119
some places

2729
01:36:44,709 --> 01:36:42,960
and even in 47 you can still see in the

2730
01:36:46,709 --> 01:36:44,719
official records the from different

2731
01:36:48,470 --> 01:36:46,719
places that they weren't entirely sure

2732
01:36:49,910 --> 01:36:48,480
that were russian as well right they

2733
01:36:52,709 --> 01:36:49,920
couldn't get that quite out of their

2734
01:36:54,470 --> 01:36:52,719
system so the old habits die hard the

2735
01:36:56,790 --> 01:36:54,480
things that were still still the same

2736
01:36:57,750 --> 01:36:56,800
people that were in charge from the war

2737
01:36:59,350 --> 01:36:57,760
and they were still thinking well there

2738
01:37:01,270 --> 01:36:59,360
must be the other sides so they were

2739
01:37:03,109 --> 01:37:01,280
still thinking that they're not aliens

2740
01:37:05,030 --> 01:37:03,119
we can't believe that too much are they

2741
01:37:07,109 --> 01:37:05,040
russian so you know there were there was

2742
01:37:09,270 --> 01:37:07,119
a lot of that going on as well but yes

2743
01:37:11,830 --> 01:37:09,280
the alien angle came along at 47 as max

2744
01:37:14,550 --> 01:37:11,840
says we got a couple more callers right

2745
01:37:16,950 --> 01:37:14,560
now we have jeff from indiana jeff

2746
01:37:18,470 --> 01:37:16,960
you're live on the air

2747
01:37:20,550 --> 01:37:18,480
yeah hello good evening

2748
01:37:22,550 --> 01:37:20,560
i just want

2749
01:37:24,070 --> 01:37:22,560
the um

2750
01:37:26,229 --> 01:37:24,080
if either one of your guests there would

2751
01:37:31,350 --> 01:37:26,239
know

2752
01:37:33,270 --> 01:37:31,360
that was ahead of skunk work

2753
01:37:34,629 --> 01:37:33,280
he said we could take e.t home and all

2754
01:37:38,149 --> 01:37:34,639
this stuff as if

2755
01:37:40,310 --> 01:37:38,159
these were the uh industrial complex

2756
01:37:41,189 --> 01:37:40,320
these people at like skunk works you

2757
01:37:43,030 --> 01:37:41,199
know that

2758
01:37:45,189 --> 01:37:43,040
that were handed to stuff

2759
01:37:47,350 --> 01:37:45,199
that were not subject to

2760
01:37:49,350 --> 01:37:47,360
uh the freedom of information act

2761
01:37:52,709 --> 01:37:49,360
uh the pentagon is but the private

2762
01:37:55,189 --> 01:37:52,719
industry is it but he seemed to

2763
01:37:57,270 --> 01:37:55,199
talk like he knew more

2764
01:38:00,390 --> 01:37:57,280
and i was just wondering if

2765
01:38:03,669 --> 01:38:00,400
if if these fellows or anybody

2766
01:38:05,189 --> 01:38:03,679
if there's anyone that knows more than

2767
01:38:07,109 --> 01:38:05,199
than we can possibly even get the

2768
01:38:09,030 --> 01:38:07,119
information about like

2769
01:38:10,629 --> 01:38:09,040
our deepest darkest projects in the

2770
01:38:11,430 --> 01:38:10,639
united states you know that's working on

2771
01:38:15,430 --> 01:38:11,440
the

2772
01:38:19,270 --> 01:38:15,440
uh bizarre

2773
01:38:21,990 --> 01:38:20,550
go ahead ben

2774
01:38:24,310 --> 01:38:22,000
yeah i think if you look at what the

2775
01:38:26,070 --> 01:38:24,320
history of of revelations about secret

2776
01:38:28,070 --> 01:38:26,080
technology i mean let's go for the the

2777
01:38:29,430 --> 01:38:28,080
stealth fight and the stealth bomber

2778
01:38:31,750 --> 01:38:29,440
the

2779
01:38:34,149 --> 01:38:31,760
lead time of what 20 maybe sometimes 25

2780
01:38:36,070 --> 01:38:34,159
years between these things being first

2781
01:38:38,870 --> 01:38:36,080
flown or developed and then being

2782
01:38:42,550 --> 01:38:38,880
unveiled to the public and really in the

2783
01:38:44,470 --> 01:38:42,560
19 late 1940s or early 1950s if the u.s

2784
01:38:46,550 --> 01:38:44,480
government or something like that that

2785
01:38:48,070 --> 01:38:46,560
had some kind of secret technology that

2786
01:38:50,550 --> 01:38:48,080
they were mucking about with or they're

2787
01:38:52,229 --> 01:38:50,560
developing it would have been out by now

2788
01:38:54,149 --> 01:38:52,239
and that would that would go for even

2789
01:38:57,510 --> 01:38:54,159
stuff in the late 50s and even to the

2790
01:39:00,550 --> 01:38:57,520
1960s we would have seen evidence of

2791
01:39:02,470 --> 01:39:00,560
this technology by now somehow whether

2792
01:39:04,550 --> 01:39:02,480
it was something that slipped out

2793
01:39:06,070 --> 01:39:04,560
somewhere um or it was a picture that

2794
01:39:08,470 --> 01:39:06,080
was a proper picture that you could say

2795
01:39:09,350 --> 01:39:08,480
yeah that's definitely something

2796
01:39:10,790 --> 01:39:09,360
you know

2797
01:39:12,950 --> 01:39:10,800
or they just came out with and said yeah

2798
01:39:15,350 --> 01:39:12,960
we've got this like they did with the

2799
01:39:16,950 --> 01:39:15,360
f117 like they did with the b2

2800
01:39:20,229 --> 01:39:16,960
right nothing like that's ever happened

2801
01:39:22,550 --> 01:39:20,239
and even to a certain extent aurora that

2802
01:39:23,350 --> 01:39:22,560
mythical weapon system that's never been

2803
01:39:24,629 --> 01:39:23,360
seen

2804
01:39:26,390 --> 01:39:24,639
there's been people who have said

2805
01:39:27,990 --> 01:39:26,400
they've seen it there's been

2806
01:39:30,149 --> 01:39:28,000
drawings of it there's been you know all

2807
01:39:31,830 --> 01:39:30,159
this kind of stuff but it's never been

2808
01:39:33,990 --> 01:39:31,840
so yeah okay we've got it you know this

2809
01:39:36,550 --> 01:39:34,000
is it and there was there was a the

2810
01:39:39,430 --> 01:39:36,560
thing called the av-6 the astra project

2811
01:39:42,629 --> 01:39:39,440
it nearly crashed into place in england

2812
01:39:44,470 --> 01:39:42,639
uh in 1994 it crashed on the runway it

2813
01:39:45,990 --> 01:39:44,480
had an undercarriage malfunction and

2814
01:39:47,350 --> 01:39:46,000
that had put it under a tarpaulin put

2815
01:39:48,950 --> 01:39:47,360
into a hangar and then flew it out to

2816
01:39:51,189 --> 01:39:48,960
palmdale the next day

2817
01:39:53,669 --> 01:39:51,199
but they've never unveiled that either

2818
01:39:56,149 --> 01:39:53,679
and um a defense journalist in the uk a

2819
01:39:57,830 --> 01:39:56,159
guy called niku um i've been in i've

2820
01:40:01,030 --> 01:39:57,840
spoke to him before he was actually

2821
01:40:03,830 --> 01:40:01,040
taken on a tour of uh part of the

2822
01:40:06,470 --> 01:40:03,840
lockheed facilities and he saw reference

2823
01:40:07,830 --> 01:40:06,480
to it on a poster in a room uh and then

2824
01:40:10,629 --> 01:40:07,840
he was hurried out when he mentioned

2825
01:40:12,229 --> 01:40:10,639
about it so um you know they probably do

2826
01:40:13,510 --> 01:40:12,239
have something like that but for some

2827
01:40:15,109 --> 01:40:13,520
reason they've never said oh yeah it

2828
01:40:16,870 --> 01:40:15,119
exists but whether or not that's

2829
01:40:18,550 --> 01:40:16,880
actually something exotic or whether

2830
01:40:20,550 --> 01:40:18,560
it's just a little follow-on from a

2831
01:40:22,149 --> 01:40:20,560
stealth fighter is anybody's guess

2832
01:40:25,990 --> 01:40:22,159
really

2833
01:40:28,070 --> 01:40:26,000
um

2834
01:40:29,750 --> 01:40:28,080
another good example is this and and you

2835
01:40:31,109 --> 01:40:29,760
know we talk about this on the show is

2836
01:40:33,669 --> 01:40:31,119
that

2837
01:40:36,070 --> 01:40:33,679
you know if the us government had some

2838
01:40:38,390 --> 01:40:36,080
kind of you know reverse engineered ufo

2839
01:40:39,830 --> 01:40:38,400
technology whatever

2840
01:40:41,750 --> 01:40:39,840
why would they go through this whole

2841
01:40:43,910 --> 01:40:41,760
facade of um you know launching the

2842
01:40:46,149 --> 01:40:43,920
space shuttle now the space shuttle was

2843
01:40:48,310 --> 01:40:46,159
like shooting a dump truck into orbit

2844
01:40:49,990 --> 01:40:48,320
okay it was expensive

2845
01:40:52,709 --> 01:40:50,000
you know it wasn't it wasn't very

2846
01:40:55,669 --> 01:40:52,719
efficient um it was the most uh the most

2847
01:40:57,830 --> 01:40:55,679
complicated machine ever built by man

2848
01:41:00,149 --> 01:40:57,840
why would you do that if you had the

2849
01:41:02,070 --> 01:41:00,159
secret of you know anti-grav or

2850
01:41:03,750 --> 01:41:02,080
something like that

2851
01:41:05,350 --> 01:41:03,760
and you've been sitting on it for

2852
01:41:06,950 --> 01:41:05,360
decades first of all why would you sit

2853
01:41:07,669 --> 01:41:06,960
on it you know why wouldn't you exploit

2854
01:41:09,030 --> 01:41:07,679
it

2855
01:41:11,350 --> 01:41:09,040
number two why would you go through all

2856
01:41:12,870 --> 01:41:11,360
that or any of the any of the moon shots

2857
01:41:14,390 --> 01:41:12,880
or anything they were all ballistically

2858
01:41:16,470 --> 01:41:14,400
shot into orbit

2859
01:41:19,669 --> 01:41:16,480
you know you you the the satin five

2860
01:41:21,910 --> 01:41:19,679
would burn up all of its fuel just to

2861
01:41:23,910 --> 01:41:21,920
get a capsule into orbit basically you

2862
01:41:26,470 --> 01:41:23,920
know why would you go through all that

2863
01:41:29,350 --> 01:41:26,480
if you had some kind of secret you know

2864
01:41:31,990 --> 01:41:29,360
from my reverse engineered ufos they

2865
01:41:33,270 --> 01:41:32,000
don't we'd live in a different world if

2866
01:41:34,950 --> 01:41:33,280
they did yeah and there's some

2867
01:41:37,830 --> 01:41:34,960
proponents of this so-called secret

2868
01:41:39,270 --> 01:41:37,840
space force right space program but i

2869
01:41:40,950 --> 01:41:39,280
don't believe that either

2870
01:41:42,790 --> 01:41:40,960
again the people who sort of spoke this

2871
01:41:44,550 --> 01:41:42,800
stuff they never have any proof it's all

2872
01:41:46,470 --> 01:41:44,560
kind of smoke and mirrors

2873
01:41:48,870 --> 01:41:46,480
so really you know i deal with facts

2874
01:41:50,950 --> 01:41:48,880
like books about facts yes i don't go in

2875
01:41:52,390 --> 01:41:50,960
for speculation speculation is all well

2876
01:41:54,310 --> 01:41:52,400
and good and it's great to talk about

2877
01:41:55,830 --> 01:41:54,320
stuff i don't mind talking about it but

2878
01:41:57,590 --> 01:41:55,840
if you're going to sort of throw it out

2879
01:41:59,030 --> 01:41:57,600
there as a fact i want something a bit

2880
01:42:01,669 --> 01:41:59,040
more than just somebody saying they did

2881
01:42:03,189 --> 01:42:01,679
something um you know i i need something

2882
01:42:05,189 --> 01:42:03,199
i can get my teeth into that i can see

2883
01:42:07,270 --> 01:42:05,199
that i can read that and touch and if

2884
01:42:09,990 --> 01:42:07,280
that doesn't exist then i'm afraid i'm a

2885
01:42:12,070 --> 01:42:10,000
bit sort of yeah okay i'll i'll you know

2886
01:42:13,990 --> 01:42:12,080
i'll just back off now thank you

2887
01:42:16,310 --> 01:42:14,000
yeah a little uh yeah we have a couple

2888
01:42:18,470 --> 01:42:16,320
more people on the line and just

2889
01:42:20,709 --> 01:42:18,480
something i i'll say that i never really

2890
01:42:22,070 --> 01:42:20,719
talk about uh because it's behind

2891
01:42:24,629 --> 01:42:22,080
you know the fourth wall as they say

2892
01:42:26,550 --> 01:42:24,639
whatever but i do get contacted by

2893
01:42:29,750 --> 01:42:26,560
a lot of people that want to be on my

2894
01:42:31,990 --> 01:42:29,760
show and um and all the time the secret

2895
01:42:34,790 --> 01:42:32,000
space program type people want to come

2896
01:42:37,830 --> 01:42:34,800
on my show and talk about it and no

2897
01:42:40,310 --> 01:42:37,840
so i'm just i'm just not up for i i like

2898
01:42:42,950 --> 01:42:40,320
the facts the facts people and this has

2899
01:42:44,950 --> 01:42:42,960
been a really good show uh in my opinion

2900
01:42:47,910 --> 01:42:44,960
uh we have

2901
01:42:49,830 --> 01:42:47,920
i just want to say could i say something

2902
01:42:51,189 --> 01:42:49,840
you're still there jeff

2903
01:42:54,550 --> 01:42:51,199
yeah i'm still here i just want to say

2904
01:42:57,430 --> 01:42:54,560
that i thought that what ben rich said

2905
01:42:59,270 --> 01:42:57,440
if that was correct he said that he we

2906
01:43:01,189 --> 01:42:59,280
can take e.t home

2907
01:43:03,030 --> 01:43:01,199
he even stated that anything you saw on

2908
01:43:04,870 --> 01:43:03,040
star trek we've done been there tonight

2909
01:43:06,550 --> 01:43:04,880
why haven't we done it already jeff

2910
01:43:08,229 --> 01:43:06,560
that's the question do you think he was

2911
01:43:09,669 --> 01:43:08,239
pulling that leg or was he lying about

2912
01:43:12,310 --> 01:43:09,679
that because that's pretty extreme

2913
01:43:13,990 --> 01:43:12,320
technology yeah teleportation

2914
01:43:16,070 --> 01:43:14,000
yeah why haven't why haven't we done it

2915
01:43:16,790 --> 01:43:16,080
already is the question then why would

2916
01:43:18,470 --> 01:43:16,800
you

2917
01:43:20,149 --> 01:43:18,480
got the capability why can't we do it

2918
01:43:21,990 --> 01:43:20,159
now yeah thank you

2919
01:43:24,229 --> 01:43:22,000
why do i have to sit in england why

2920
01:43:26,709 --> 01:43:24,239
can't i just teleport myself across to

2921
01:43:29,990 --> 01:43:26,719
to martin's house and do the show there

2922
01:43:32,310 --> 01:43:30,000
do the show live yeah exactly yeah

2923
01:43:34,470 --> 01:43:32,320
all right well anyway thank you thank

2924
01:43:38,870 --> 01:43:34,480
you for the call jeff jeff's a frequent

2925
01:43:41,430 --> 01:43:38,880
flyer um calls a lot we have elton now

2926
01:43:43,350 --> 01:43:41,440
elton is uh i actually elton's been on

2927
01:43:46,390 --> 01:43:43,360
the show talked about his ufo sighting

2928
01:43:49,830 --> 01:43:46,400
if it has to be him right ellen elton is

2929
01:43:52,870 --> 01:43:49,840
that you from oakland area california

2930
01:43:55,030 --> 01:43:52,880
yes sir yes yes martin that's me

2931
01:43:57,910 --> 01:43:55,040
hi welcome to the show you have a you

2932
01:44:00,229 --> 01:43:57,920
have a question for our guest

2933
01:44:02,790 --> 01:44:00,239
yeah i heard graham mentioned something

2934
01:44:05,510 --> 01:44:02,800
about fireballs he has such a wide

2935
01:44:08,070 --> 01:44:05,520
knowledge of different phenomenon and uh

2936
01:44:11,109 --> 01:44:08,080
i've never mentioned this to you

2937
01:44:13,350 --> 01:44:11,119
uh martin but early uh just before cove

2938
01:44:14,870 --> 01:44:13,360
had struck in 2020 in march i was

2939
01:44:17,109 --> 01:44:14,880
driving home

2940
01:44:19,189 --> 01:44:17,119
and this fireball

2941
01:44:21,430 --> 01:44:19,199
came down at about a 30 degree angle

2942
01:44:22,629 --> 01:44:21,440
about 20 feet diameter

2943
01:44:23,910 --> 01:44:22,639
but just

2944
01:44:26,870 --> 01:44:23,920
recently i

2945
01:44:29,270 --> 01:44:26,880
i didn't really consider it to be a ufo

2946
01:44:32,550 --> 01:44:29,280
so i'm kind of confused

2947
01:44:35,910 --> 01:44:32,560
because this i expected it to blow up

2948
01:44:37,270 --> 01:44:35,920
when it passed me on the freeway

2949
01:44:39,030 --> 01:44:37,280
and it didn't

2950
01:44:41,270 --> 01:44:39,040
i heard nothing

2951
01:44:42,950 --> 01:44:41,280
so i was just wondering to see what you

2952
01:44:44,790 --> 01:44:42,960
guys

2953
01:44:47,109 --> 01:44:44,800
if you don't mind now if you don't mind

2954
01:44:48,629 --> 01:44:47,119
i'll take that one to begin with

2955
01:44:50,229 --> 01:44:48,639
um i

2956
01:44:53,430 --> 01:44:50,239
i had a

2957
01:44:56,070 --> 01:44:53,440
the much more incredible than the ufo

2958
01:44:59,910 --> 01:44:56,080
was a fireball sighting back in the late

2959
01:45:01,750 --> 01:44:59,920
1980s this thing to me it was huge it

2960
01:45:04,229 --> 01:45:01,760
looked

2961
01:45:07,109 --> 01:45:04,239
what's that

2962
01:45:10,149 --> 01:45:07,119
it looked it looked perfectly round it

2963
01:45:12,310 --> 01:45:10,159
was rotating it had cracks in it there

2964
01:45:14,070 --> 01:45:12,320
were sparks flying off of it and i

2965
01:45:16,310 --> 01:45:14,080
thought this thing was going to land

2966
01:45:17,830 --> 01:45:16,320
like a few miles out into the ocean i

2967
01:45:19,430 --> 01:45:17,840
lived about three miles away from the

2968
01:45:22,950 --> 01:45:19,440
atlantic ocean

2969
01:45:23,830 --> 01:45:22,960
and supposedly something landed in china

2970
01:45:25,910 --> 01:45:23,840
so

2971
01:45:28,709 --> 01:45:25,920
uh you know it looks like it's going to

2972
01:45:30,310 --> 01:45:28,719
land but that doesn't mean that that's

2973
01:45:31,910 --> 01:45:30,320
just the perspective that you're seeing

2974
01:45:34,310 --> 01:45:31,920
it at right now

2975
01:45:36,070 --> 01:45:34,320
i saw a green fireball in 2016 about two

2976
01:45:37,830 --> 01:45:36,080
or three miles from where i live i was

2977
01:45:40,149 --> 01:45:37,840
driving home one night about 11 o'clock

2978
01:45:42,870 --> 01:45:40,159
and it flew over the car heading

2979
01:45:44,390 --> 01:45:42,880
northbound and it looked close and it

2980
01:45:46,629 --> 01:45:44,400
was large but

2981
01:45:48,470 --> 01:45:46,639
it actually when the next day when i i

2982
01:45:49,750 --> 01:45:48,480
investigated a bit more it turned out

2983
01:45:50,870 --> 01:45:49,760
that other people have seen it in

2984
01:45:52,790 --> 01:45:50,880
scotland

2985
01:45:54,149 --> 01:45:52,800
so yeah yeah

2986
01:45:55,510 --> 01:45:54,159
i mean i do live in northern england i'm

2987
01:45:56,870 --> 01:45:55,520
actually next to the border of scotland

2988
01:45:58,550 --> 01:45:56,880
but people have seen it in far north

2989
01:46:00,229 --> 01:45:58,560
scotland as well and had been seen at

2990
01:46:02,149 --> 01:46:00,239
the in the south of england so it had

2991
01:46:04,310 --> 01:46:02,159
flown quite a way and people were just

2992
01:46:06,870 --> 01:46:04,320
seeing it different places but to me you

2993
01:46:08,709 --> 01:46:06,880
know it looked huge and it was leaving a

2994
01:46:10,310 --> 01:46:08,719
bit of a green trail behind it as you

2995
01:46:12,950 --> 01:46:10,320
say with sparks and things coming out of

2996
01:46:15,270 --> 01:46:12,960
it but i sort of knew straight away

2997
01:46:17,109 --> 01:46:15,280
that's that's a meteor fragment um and

2998
01:46:18,229 --> 01:46:17,119
it's going to burn up at some stage

2999
01:46:20,149 --> 01:46:18,239
because i'd heard about these things

3000
01:46:21,910 --> 01:46:20,159
before but i've never seen one until

3001
01:46:23,350 --> 01:46:21,920
lame but it was really impressive and

3002
01:46:24,790 --> 01:46:23,360
then you have to stop the car and just

3003
01:46:26,870 --> 01:46:24,800
go wow

3004
01:46:29,189 --> 01:46:26,880
yeah it looked unreal we saw one uh on

3005
01:46:30,870 --> 01:46:29,199
our honeymoon to the truth over the

3006
01:46:32,790 --> 01:46:30,880
beach in block island

3007
01:46:35,189 --> 01:46:32,800
and it looks unreal it looks like a

3008
01:46:39,109 --> 01:46:35,199
cartoon or something it just it just

3009
01:46:40,870 --> 01:46:39,119
looks unreal you know and and huge and

3010
01:46:41,910 --> 01:46:40,880
and then you don't realize that people

3011
01:46:44,390 --> 01:46:41,920
are probably the other side of the

3012
01:46:46,149 --> 01:46:44,400
atlantic seeing the same thing

3013
01:46:47,990 --> 01:46:46,159
all right hey elton good to hear from

3014
01:46:50,229 --> 01:46:48,000
you

3015
01:46:52,870 --> 01:46:50,239
it was directly

3016
01:46:54,390 --> 01:46:52,880
flew directly over the car

3017
01:46:55,910 --> 01:46:54,400
over the freeway

3018
01:46:58,390 --> 01:46:55,920
and it was right

3019
01:47:00,629 --> 01:46:58,400
50 75 feet in front of my windshield and

3020
01:47:03,430 --> 01:47:00,639
i really got a good look at it it looked

3021
01:47:04,870 --> 01:47:03,440
just like the one you described martin

3022
01:47:08,550 --> 01:47:04,880
elton can i ask you a question how do

3023
01:47:10,390 --> 01:47:08,560
you know how big it was

3024
01:47:11,510 --> 01:47:10,400
well i mean it was right in front of me

3025
01:47:12,629 --> 01:47:11,520
it was bigger

3026
01:47:14,390 --> 01:47:12,639
but it's something that you don't know

3027
01:47:16,149 --> 01:47:14,400
what it is how do you know how big it

3028
01:47:17,590 --> 01:47:16,159
was because this is the thing about i

3029
01:47:20,149 --> 01:47:17,600
mean i say this all the time with people

3030
01:47:22,070 --> 01:47:20,159
estimating sizes and distances if you

3031
01:47:24,790 --> 01:47:22,080
don't know how big something it is you

3032
01:47:26,550 --> 01:47:24,800
can't tell how far away it is

3033
01:47:29,430 --> 01:47:26,560
i understand what you're saying the

3034
01:47:31,910 --> 01:47:29,440
center core was molten lava-like and

3035
01:47:33,030 --> 01:47:31,920
then around the perimeter it was like

3036
01:47:35,750 --> 01:47:33,040
fire

3037
01:47:38,070 --> 01:47:35,760
uh around the edges of it i mean it was

3038
01:47:39,910 --> 01:47:38,080
it was pretty sizable okay because the

3039
01:47:41,350 --> 01:47:39,920
thing i saw from the car look i could

3040
01:47:42,790 --> 01:47:41,360
have it looked at one point it was all

3041
01:47:45,430 --> 01:47:42,800
kind of if you put my hand up and touch

3042
01:47:47,350 --> 01:47:45,440
it but actually it was because it it was

3043
01:47:48,790 --> 01:47:47,360
quite it was quite fast and it was also

3044
01:47:50,470 --> 01:47:48,800
quite large but it was still quite

3045
01:47:52,470 --> 01:47:50,480
distance away but i couldn't tell you

3046
01:47:54,550 --> 01:47:52,480
how big it was nor can i really tell you

3047
01:47:55,990 --> 01:47:54,560
how far away it was because things like

3048
01:47:57,510 --> 01:47:56,000
this and this is the whole thing about

3049
01:47:59,430 --> 01:47:57,520
ufology about people estimating

3050
01:48:01,030 --> 01:47:59,440
distances and sizes when you've got

3051
01:48:02,870 --> 01:48:01,040
something you don't know what it is you

3052
01:48:04,790 --> 01:48:02,880
can't tell how big it is so therefore

3053
01:48:06,950 --> 01:48:04,800
you can't really tell her

3054
01:48:09,270 --> 01:48:06,960
and vice versa if you see what i mean

3055
01:48:10,310 --> 01:48:09,280
but yeah you probably saw something like

3056
01:48:12,310 --> 01:48:10,320
what mac

3057
01:48:14,070 --> 01:48:12,320
martin and i saw it'd be just a it would

3058
01:48:16,070 --> 01:48:14,080
be a meteor fragment

3059
01:48:17,430 --> 01:48:16,080
yeah hey thanks for the call out and we

3060
01:48:21,350 --> 01:48:17,440
have another caller to get to i

3061
01:48:23,109 --> 01:48:21,360
appreciate it and and talk to you soon

3062
01:48:24,709 --> 01:48:23,119
all right we have our last call for the

3063
01:48:26,310 --> 01:48:24,719
night ken i can't remember where you're

3064
01:48:27,669 --> 01:48:26,320
from ken you're live in the air where

3065
01:48:29,350 --> 01:48:27,679
are you from

3066
01:48:30,950 --> 01:48:29,360
yeah

3067
01:48:32,709 --> 01:48:30,960
i'm from los angeles

3068
01:48:35,109 --> 01:48:32,719
hi ken welcome to the show you have a

3069
01:48:37,189 --> 01:48:35,119
question for our guest

3070
01:48:38,470 --> 01:48:37,199
uh yeah well actually i have a um

3071
01:48:42,070 --> 01:48:38,480
something i want to talk about lou

3072
01:48:44,229 --> 01:48:42,080
elizondo was recently on a um some

3073
01:48:46,709 --> 01:48:44,239
presentation and he was talking about

3074
01:48:48,310 --> 01:48:46,719
how he had read documents that were

3075
01:48:50,629 --> 01:48:48,320
written in latin

3076
01:48:53,590 --> 01:48:50,639
of soldiers talking about you know

3077
01:48:55,510 --> 01:48:53,600
seeing these shiny objects in the sky

3078
01:48:58,390 --> 01:48:55,520
we also know that there are cave

3079
01:49:00,629 --> 01:48:58,400
paintings of ufos and you know all

3080
01:49:03,990 --> 01:49:00,639
throughout history we've heard about

3081
01:49:05,430 --> 01:49:04,000
these crafts flying around in our skies

3082
01:49:08,149 --> 01:49:05,440
right we're not we're not talking about

3083
01:49:10,390 --> 01:49:08,159
these crafts flying around other planets

3084
01:49:13,510 --> 01:49:10,400
well lou elizondo was also talking about

3085
01:49:15,589 --> 01:49:13,520
how we recently became aware of a of a

3086
01:49:17,430 --> 01:49:15,599
new kingdom you know the mycelium

3087
01:49:19,910 --> 01:49:17,440
kingdom right we thought it was just the

3088
01:49:22,070 --> 01:49:19,920
plant kingdom and the animal kingdom but

3089
01:49:23,910 --> 01:49:22,080
then you know 150 years ago we realized

3090
01:49:26,390 --> 01:49:23,920
that there was a mycelium kingdom which

3091
01:49:27,430 --> 01:49:26,400
is even bigger and he alluded to the

3092
01:49:29,589 --> 01:49:27,440
fact that

3093
01:49:32,629 --> 01:49:29,599
we are going to come to a point where we

3094
01:49:34,870 --> 01:49:32,639
realize that there is another life form

3095
01:49:37,510 --> 01:49:34,880
or another intelligence sharing the

3096
01:49:40,470 --> 01:49:37,520
planet with us yes i heard that i heard

3097
01:49:42,550 --> 01:49:40,480
that interview that was fascinating

3098
01:49:44,709 --> 01:49:42,560
to me and uh

3099
01:49:46,390 --> 01:49:44,719
and yeah that kind of gave me the chills

3100
01:49:47,589 --> 01:49:46,400
when i heard him talk about that can we

3101
01:49:50,629 --> 01:49:47,599
blame them

3102
01:49:53,830 --> 01:49:52,149
right maybe we're not the top of the

3103
01:49:57,270 --> 01:49:53,840
food chain maybe we're not the top of

3104
01:49:59,990 --> 01:49:57,280
the intelligence that's already here

3105
01:50:00,950 --> 01:50:00,000
more about that and

3106
01:50:02,229 --> 01:50:00,960
sorry

3107
01:50:05,109 --> 01:50:02,239
all i can tell you is i'm going to be

3108
01:50:06,950 --> 01:50:05,119
interviewing um lou in march and you

3109
01:50:08,390 --> 01:50:06,960
know that's definitely a topic i'm

3110
01:50:11,270 --> 01:50:08,400
really going to try to get more

3111
01:50:13,589 --> 01:50:11,280
information from him about

3112
01:50:14,950 --> 01:50:13,599
lu's a very interesting guy i i was

3113
01:50:17,669 --> 01:50:14,960
fortunate to meet him at the end of

3114
01:50:21,109 --> 01:50:17,679
october this uh this year uh in london

3115
01:50:24,310 --> 01:50:21,119
um and he you know what he knows who

3116
01:50:25,990 --> 01:50:24,320
knows what he knows uh is what i'll say

3117
01:50:27,830 --> 01:50:26,000
um but he comes out with some very

3118
01:50:29,030 --> 01:50:27,840
interesting things he's certainly worth

3119
01:50:31,350 --> 01:50:29,040
listening to

3120
01:50:33,430 --> 01:50:31,360
um and i think you have to like maybe

3121
01:50:34,870 --> 01:50:33,440
listen again to what he says every time

3122
01:50:37,189 --> 01:50:34,880
because you might be leaving little

3123
01:50:39,669 --> 01:50:37,199
breadcrumbs here and there but yeah he's

3124
01:50:41,350 --> 01:50:39,679
definitely worth listening to yeah

3125
01:50:43,189 --> 01:50:41,360
yeah but i thought you know just not

3126
01:50:46,310 --> 01:50:43,199
listen to him i can also just you know

3127
01:50:47,910 --> 01:50:46,320
use my own intellect and deduce that

3128
01:50:49,910 --> 01:50:47,920
all of these sightings that people are

3129
01:50:51,830 --> 01:50:49,920
having that you know we people have been

3130
01:50:53,589 --> 01:50:51,840
seeing crafts under the water for

3131
01:50:55,510 --> 01:50:53,599
literally thousands of years people have

3132
01:50:58,310 --> 01:50:55,520
been seeing crafts coming in and out of

3133
01:51:01,350 --> 01:50:58,320
our oceans in and out of our volcanoes

3134
01:51:03,589 --> 01:51:01,360
so we are not the only species on this

3135
01:51:05,109 --> 01:51:03,599
planet it's kind of obvious that

3136
01:51:09,109 --> 01:51:05,119
that there are these i call them

3137
01:51:14,070 --> 01:51:11,830
monitor our um our military our military

3138
01:51:16,149 --> 01:51:14,080
facilities the russians know that if

3139
01:51:18,149 --> 01:51:16,159
they want to want to get the these

3140
01:51:20,470 --> 01:51:18,159
crashes show up all they have to do is

3141
01:51:22,550 --> 01:51:20,480
amass their military um

3142
01:51:24,870 --> 01:51:22,560
or weapons and things or military gear

3143
01:51:26,470 --> 01:51:24,880
around and the ufos show up you know

3144
01:51:28,310 --> 01:51:26,480
they're not again they're not showing up

3145
01:51:30,229 --> 01:51:28,320
from another planet they're not showing

3146
01:51:32,790 --> 01:51:30,239
up from another dimension or from the

3147
01:51:36,790 --> 01:51:32,800
from the future right they're popping up

3148
01:51:39,189 --> 01:51:36,800
out of out of this ocean in this time

3149
01:51:41,430 --> 01:51:39,199
and that's what i would say all right

3150
01:51:42,950 --> 01:51:41,440
well i appreciate the call ken

3151
01:51:45,109 --> 01:51:42,960
thank you ken

3152
01:51:47,510 --> 01:51:45,119
thank you yeah i mean that is that is

3153
01:51:49,510 --> 01:51:47,520
interesting you know the the uh

3154
01:51:51,030 --> 01:51:49,520
for instance you know the usos is a

3155
01:51:55,990 --> 01:51:51,040
whole nother

3156
01:51:58,229 --> 01:51:56,000
has been seen forever

3157
01:52:01,189 --> 01:51:58,239
by military as well suppose you know i

3158
01:52:02,390 --> 01:52:01,199
mean i talked to mark d'antonio who saw

3159
01:52:03,830 --> 01:52:02,400
firsthand

3160
01:52:06,550 --> 01:52:03,840
on a submarine

3161
01:52:08,950 --> 01:52:06,560
test run he was on you know where this

3162
01:52:10,790 --> 01:52:08,960
fast mover going several hundred knots

3163
01:52:13,589 --> 01:52:10,800
underwater

3164
01:52:16,229 --> 01:52:13,599
nothing can explain in our technology

3165
01:52:17,830 --> 01:52:16,239
especially you know 20 years ago there's

3166
01:52:19,510 --> 01:52:17,840
nothing that we had as far as i know

3167
01:52:20,310 --> 01:52:19,520
that would ever go that type of speed

3168
01:52:23,030 --> 01:52:20,320
right

3169
01:52:24,629 --> 01:52:23,040
so a really good mystery

3170
01:52:26,070 --> 01:52:24,639
another one

3171
01:52:27,910 --> 01:52:26,080
so um

3172
01:52:29,750 --> 01:52:27,920
i would like to ask you graham we only

3173
01:52:32,149 --> 01:52:29,760
have we only have two minutes left it's

3174
01:52:35,109 --> 01:52:32,159
just we have to we have to wrap right up

3175
01:52:37,270 --> 01:52:35,119
in two minutes but um someone like you

3176
01:52:40,149 --> 01:52:37,280
writing this type of book i want to read

3177
01:52:42,390 --> 01:52:40,159
stuff that you write i want to read so i

3178
01:52:45,109 --> 01:52:42,400
want you to write more

3179
01:52:46,629 --> 01:52:45,119
and i'm planning to don't worry yeah so

3180
01:52:48,149 --> 01:52:46,639
let's uh let's hear what you have

3181
01:52:49,430 --> 01:52:48,159
something in mind

3182
01:52:51,270 --> 01:52:49,440
so i'm working on something at the

3183
01:52:52,629 --> 01:52:51,280
moment which i'm not uh sort of a little

3184
01:52:54,629 --> 01:52:52,639
bit to discuss at the moment but it'll

3185
01:52:56,310 --> 01:52:54,639
probably be out sometime in the new year

3186
01:52:57,350 --> 01:52:56,320
um i mean in terms of the book if you

3187
01:52:59,030 --> 01:52:57,360
want to read this i don't know if you

3188
01:53:01,109 --> 01:52:59,040
haven't already martin but there's

3189
01:53:03,589 --> 01:53:01,119
there's the book so that's uh ufos

3190
01:53:05,109 --> 01:53:03,599
before roswell and it's got the uh it's

3191
01:53:06,950 --> 01:53:05,119
got a picture on the front of the the

3192
01:53:08,229 --> 01:53:06,960
wellington encounter that was done by a

3193
01:53:10,629 --> 01:53:08,239
couple of good friends of mine dan

3194
01:53:12,950 --> 01:53:10,639
zetastrom and olaf rockner uh who comes

3195
01:53:15,030 --> 01:53:12,960
from sweden um so they came up with us

3196
01:53:17,189 --> 01:53:15,040
and if you see the forward is by sean

3197
01:53:21,430 --> 01:53:17,199
cahill who was one of the witnesses to

3198
01:53:23,430 --> 01:53:21,440
the 2004 nimitz encounters oh wow and so

3199
01:53:26,390 --> 01:53:23,440
he was on print he was there he was on

3200
01:53:27,910 --> 01:53:26,400
princeton at the time so um he was good

3201
01:53:29,830 --> 01:53:27,920
enough to do the forward for me so the

3202
01:53:31,669 --> 01:53:29,840
books are available on amazon um i've

3203
01:53:33,750 --> 01:53:31,679
got other books which are available with

3204
01:53:35,669 --> 01:53:33,760
aircraft which are on there as well but

3205
01:53:38,310 --> 01:53:35,679
i'm working on another ufo book which

3206
01:53:40,709 --> 01:53:38,320
will be out in the new year i'm also

3207
01:53:42,870 --> 01:53:40,719
looking to do a book about the pacific

3208
01:53:44,709 --> 01:53:42,880
wall in terms of foo fighters as well at

3209
01:53:47,350 --> 01:53:44,719
some stage which i'm in the early stages

3210
01:53:49,430 --> 01:53:47,360
of looking at but also i'm still finding

3211
01:53:50,709 --> 01:53:49,440
information about the european side so

3212
01:53:52,550 --> 01:53:50,719
hopefully there'll be another follow-on

3213
01:53:54,310 --> 01:53:52,560
volume for that as well and if anybody

3214
01:53:56,870 --> 01:53:54,320
wants to talk to me uh my twitter

3215
01:53:58,470 --> 01:53:56,880
handle's there that's uh border750 you

3216
01:54:00,070 --> 01:53:58,480
can get in touch with me that way

3217
01:54:01,750 --> 01:54:00,080
all right i do want to talk to you too

3218
01:54:03,910 --> 01:54:01,760
because i have something to talk about

3219
01:54:06,229 --> 01:54:03,920
uh with you uh

3220
01:54:07,830 --> 01:54:06,239
from someone i spoke to at some point so

3221
01:54:10,070 --> 01:54:07,840
i will be in touch with you thanks so

3222
01:54:12,149 --> 01:54:10,080
much we are right at the end of our time

3223
01:54:15,750 --> 01:54:12,159
all right take care thank you thanks bye

3224
01:54:16,790 --> 01:54:15,760
bye now and mac um quickly just a quick

3225
01:54:18,709 --> 01:54:16,800
second

3226
01:54:21,109 --> 01:54:18,719
when's your show gen where can people

3227
01:54:23,270 --> 01:54:21,119
find a millionaire

3228
01:54:26,149 --> 01:54:23,280
okay on uh the best place to go to look

3229
01:54:29,270 --> 01:54:26,159
for us is on apple podcast mac maloney's

3230
01:54:30,310 --> 01:54:29,280
military x-files on apple podcasts all

3231
01:54:32,790 --> 01:54:30,320
right um

3232
01:54:34,790 --> 01:54:32,800
uh just google mcloney's miltrax files

3233
01:54:37,189 --> 01:54:34,800
you'll find us eventually all right

3234
01:54:39,510 --> 01:54:37,199
excellent so thanks so much max sorry

3235
01:54:41,750 --> 01:54:39,520
you can hear me and i'm saying thank you

3236
01:54:45,189 --> 01:54:41,760
to you uh but anyway next week paul

3237
01:54:47,589 --> 01:54:45,199
heineck uh paul hynix on j allen heineck

3238
01:54:48,870 --> 01:54:47,599
son always a fun time he's a great guy

3239
01:54:51,189 --> 01:54:48,880
i'm really looking forward to that

3240
01:54:54,520 --> 01:54:51,199
thanks so much and remember to keep your

3241
01:55:03,840 --> 01:54:54,530
eyes to the sky